OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[Arthur]

Just looking for some input on jetboat starters.It seems I can't keep a starter in my boat for a whole season.I've tried a few differnt styles(including the High performance one)and just can't feel comfortable on a long trip without a spare.The bad part is even with a spare to change, my motor has to be raised up a few inches to do it.Not impossible, but not how I want to spend my time on the water.It doesn't get wet, other than moistre,and the problem just seems to apear randomly.It feels like I'm pulling on a slot machine everytime i reach for the key.Could it be something other than the starter?faulty ignition contact?I've tried three or four differnt starters this year and right now am using the one that GM spec'd with my motor,but it still act's up.I'm thinking about pulling my motor and notching out the tight spot, but don't really want to take any material/strength from the boat.I've considered top mount but not sure if I can just get the mounting housing and still incorparate the four point motor mount system?I've seen them where they are supported by the pump and don't realy want to go that route.Idealy I would like to never change it again but I've this keeps up i'm thinking of going to wingnuts and quick cable dissconects....

[Alumaman]

Assuming your buying good quality starters and they are not getting wet or subjected to oil leaks then have you checked for a continuity problem or high current draw which can both cause repeated starter failures. Have you tried a voltage drop test along the starting circuits, or compared cranking current with manufacturer's specs. If not a resistance issue it could be the engine that's binding.

What types of failures are you seeing with the starters which have failed?

[Arthur]

The starters I am getting are from Joe's Electric just off of Yellowhead and Fort road.I can't remember who sent me there but I feel comfortable dealing with the guy,meaning he tells it how it is and trys to help as much as possible.I've brought a couple into him to rip apart and try and make a good one, but haven't been back to talk to him since then.The latest starter in their looks like it's from a big block and is from GM,listed in the ZZ383 manual.This one is so far been OK but still has a time or two when you have to wait.Buddy gave me a cheater button to short out the solenoid, but by the time I dig it out ,I hit the key again and it fire's.This would just tell me if it's the starter or something else.If you have time can you explain to me in a bit of detail on how to perform voltage test drop?I'm assuming hook my meter up to the engage wire and see how much VDC I'm losing???Also if I use my clamp on to check the draw, what is the norm? or is every starter different?Continuity test would tell me if there's a bad wire, if the break was in the right spot.How about the contacts in the key being corroded?I guess I'm wondering if you could"dumb it down a bit"and tell me the right steps to take when checking these things you listed.All info is much appriciated.Thanx-CL

[WILSON]

The problem with starters, in my engineering background opinion (does that sound like BS or what?? ) is that the moving parts don't move frequently enough, pick up rust and end up stuck.

This is the result mainly of moisture. I have the same problem and have never actually got my starters wet.

And the reason you don't get that problem with your car is that YOU USE IT EVERYDAY, so you don't give rust enough time to stick the moving parts together.

Probably the best way to keep a boat starter functional once you checked that voltage drop thing (use BIG cables for starters!!) is to crank the engine AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. This way, you will be able to "break" the rust before it locks the moving parts.

That's my two cents

[AR]

You could be getting a voltage drop from the switch to the starter.

That's why some guys use a Ford starter relay mounted back close to the starter and just use the switch wire to engage the relay.

But my guess is it's getting wet inside. The way that happens is a little water gets in the bottom of the boat and the flywheel picks it up and slings it in the starter threw the starter nose cup.

If you hear the flywheel hitting water then the starter is getting wet !

I have a 1978 boat with a top mount starter and 749hrs, same starter, brushes one time. In my opinion a large starter is much better than a mini-starter if you have the room.


________

[Itsworthit]

The top mount starter is definitely the way to go, if you are looking for a mount phone Roger Kehoe, (780-466-6074) he makes a bell housing that has the top mount for the starter, if you don't use a bell housing, I believe he or outlaw make a motor plate to do the same

[AR]

[Alumaman]

Here’s my “knows enough to be dangerous” explanation. Lots of things could be causing these failures, its likely a moisture related problem but this may help to rule out some other possibilities. And even then if you do find a cable problem it doesn't’t mean that it was that which what was causing the starter failures. I sound like a mechanic. oops’s sorry any mechanics out there.

A simple continuity check might show everything as ok but amperage can suffer if resistance is high so try a simple test for voltage drop (needs to be done under load).
First test the positive circuit. Disable ignition so engine won’t start.
Connect the the RED lead to battery positive and the BLACK to the pos. terminal on the starter. While cranking the engine the reading should not exceed 0.5 volts. But could be as high as 1 volt. Next test the ground circuit. RED lead directly to the starter casing and the BLACK to the battery negative terminal. While cranking the engine, the voltage drop should not exceed 0.3 volts.

The total of the two should normally not exceed 0.8 volts. 1 volt may be considered acceptable but anything higher, likely indicates trouble. Look for damaged cables, loose or corroded connections.

To check cranking amp draw, clip around either the positive or negative cable to the starter. A starter generally requires 250 amps to turn over a V8 engine, depending on displacement, temperature, etc, but anything higher than 350 amps might mean starter problems or binding.

Also you can use the DC volt meter to check the supplied voltage while cranking, it shouldn't drop below 9.6v to the starter if the battery is good. Hook up Red to starter, black to battery neg.

Good luck. I assume this will be a next spring project?

Top mount starters are a good option. Roger - Dale is waiting for one and your holding up production.

[Arthur]

WOW Lot's of input and all appriciated.I guess that's about 8 cents worth or so.THANX.I am going to go through all the wiring and connections right away, but I won't do the load/volt test untill spring when I can crank it.i probably will price out the housing and/or bracket w/starter and let everyone know what the cost is in a few day's.Sounds like that's a common problem(moisture)and the best fix would be a top mount.

[Itsworthit]

Wow, aluma, mechanic? awful big word for you, hehe, so when the party to break in the new hull? I'll bring the 60 ponder of CR and 23 1/2 rums for Doc

[DOC]

Go buy an expensive marine starter from eagle, mine is 10 years old, its been on 3 motors, never had a minutes trouble with it. Krawford i think your phones ringing !!!

[DOC]

Go buy an expensive marine starter from eagle, mine is 10 years old, its been on 3 motors, never had a minutes trouble with it. Krawford i think your phones ringing !!!

[DOC]

Go buy an expensive marine starter from eagle, mine is 10 years old, its been on 3 motors, never had a minutes trouble with it. Krawford i think your phones ringing !!!

[Bald Man]

I used to have to buy a new starter or 2 every year. I now spray it down with WD-40 before and after each ride. I try to keep the boat dry when it's parked after running it too. This has helped, but I think the best way is to buy the top mount starter.

[Alumaman]

Itsworthit, yes I didn't even know how to spell "V8" until a few months ago. Next week the new hull should be in its news bed.
When do you pick up your new log jumper? Maybe a christening party for twins.
Well need an extra barrel.

Did you get that Elan sled of yours running?