OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[allblowdup]

Unfortionatly it has always been the this way with any kind of racing. At best the racers will play with the grey areas to give them the best advantage which usually leads to greater costs. I am not saying that I agree with it in the sportjet class just that it will always happen. The rules governing it would have to be extremely specific in order to keep the creative minds at bay. The problem with the pump parts is that if one guy has a brand new set up it may have from .015 clearance verses another brand new setup may be at .025 depending on tolerances. One would have to buy a bunch of parts and pick the best ones which again leads to cost. It is a viscous circle but that's racing. Just my two cents.

[YKX]

You said it Xero!

Most cant EVEN get into the sport anymore. Rollbars, pump retros, moving back the seats, etc, the list continues. I seriously thought of getting into that class for experience so I can climb into another class, but with the retro looks of sj, why??? Might as well jump into fx. Your spending the same thing to go just a bit slower.

I liked the idea of racing on sunday and cruising on monday attitude without changing anything and worrying about my next race. I guess there is nothing STOCK about a STOCK boat!

p/s- not intended for any racer/s that have their boat setup this way already, just 2 cents. (But nice to see how far you can setup these machines to get the extra)

YKX

[KJet]

This is exactly my dilemma. I, like Mark and I'm sure others, would like to be a competitive racer in the class and also us the boat for the weekend romps with the family and friends.

The Safety equipment is not a problem with me because, at least for what I do mostly, I feel it is very necessary. To put kind of a backwards twist to what everyone is saying, I would like to use a uhmw ware ring if it going to save me money on parts and machine work after being out with my Friends spitting gravel. And why not sharpen my custom Eagle grate if its going to save me money for fuel on my family outings. But with at least one part that came with the boat and not from the manufacturer I've thrown the UIM rules out the window so that leaves me with just racing under AWJA and I don't think these simple mods are going to keep me competitive under that set.

My only thought is that a more detailed rule set could be made for the SJ class that would specify parts, both OEM and aftermarket, that can be used. Restrict mods on some parts ie. motor and gearing, and leave mods to some parts wide open or limited, ie. "the manufactures part nos. ???? nozzles may be modified to your hearts content, but the off the shelf outside configuration and dimensions of that part cannot be changed."

The governing body could, at all times, remember that this is an entry level class, keep the immediate and long term cost to the racers in mind, make the adoption of new aftermarket parts into the rules simple, and leave something the racer can grind on under the shade tree beside the house or a little machine work that his buddy across town can do for a six pack or two. To me showing up to the race with your own individual setup is half if not more of the fun and excitement racing experience. A entry level class is to learn to drive, learn the rules, learn the equipment, learn what effect this twuik and that twuang does to the performance, be competitive, and have fun.

Ok, maybe thats 3 cents. Cheers!

As of now I prefer the AWJA rule set because for one as my boat sits I can bolt on the safety equipment and paint a number on the side and I'm legal. Ask me to abide by UIM rules and go to the manufacturer and spend some bucks for slower, less efficient, and shorter lasting parts and tie my hands so that I have no individual input on how my equipment will work. Forget it, I'll be home under the shade tree grinding on the dash so I can get a bigger beer cooler under the bow for my little sight seeing trip on the Colorado the same weekend as the Albany race. I would be scared to death to go from UIM SJ class were my experience in setup and modifications has been limited to A, B, or C class. There are only two things I see that you would learn under UIM SJ class rules, balancing the boat and keeping the throttle wide open.

[WILSON]

Well, Xerophobic's way of thinking is exactly what we had in mind when establishing the UIM rule.

This doesn't mean the AWJA rule is "bad". If the AWJA rules were designed thinking in the boats that are turning up in the events, so be it. If most guys with sport jets in the U.S. who are willing to go racing have the special wear ring or a different impeller, they should be allowed to race, by all means!

However, the UIM rule is international. And the opinion of guys representing Canada, Mexico and NZ at the UIM is that jet units should be used as they come from the manufacturer.

If you have that UHMW wear ring its not that hard or expensive to install the "legal" one if you are going to a UIM event, anyway, come on!!

[Xerophobic]

One thing to add what I said before, if someone can't afford 2 boats Im betting alot that the race boat is the boat they won't have

Cheers

[Xerophobic]

I apreciate what everyone is saying about the mods but it just becomes like it has in alot of other clases, where does it end? What to allow and what not to? The majority of people will be in compliance as most SJ's are purchased "stock". If you're boat already has a non legal aftermarket part then sure you might have to spend a bit to make yourself compliant but Im sure you will be the minority. Basically its alot less fun for the guy who shows up stock if there are mod'd boats there that are driven by more experinced racers. If a guy loses due to inexpereince but has a boat that is as fast as the next guy he will want to come back to gain the expereince so he can beat those guys. That expereince comes with seat time and is "free" . However he may give up if there is always someone spending more money than he is no matter how good his driving skills become. You see that in many other classes and I feel thats the single biggest threat to survival of this sport. Im not seeing a huge number of boats at events in ANY class

Fully agree with the "shadetree" way of thinking, thats the only way I will ever race, but some of the rules and the courses we are running currently may not be as favourable to this type of participant as they could be.
I'd say the success of SBFX is a good example of a class thats restricted but has been a success. I think SJ needs to that much and more to really draw the otherwise spectator into the pits with their own boat

Great discussion tho

Cheers

[WILSON]

He he he... I'm the exception...

I can´t afford two boats, and the boat I have is a race boat, go figure!

[KJet]

Wilson,

I'm not saying that either rule is "bad". Whats bad is having two rules for the same class that are different enough to make it very expensive to get everyone to come to the race and all be competitive. It's bad for the pocket book trying to be competitive under both rules which is bad for the number of participants at the races.

What I was trying to say before with the "shade tree" thing is that I think the SJ class can attract the thrift minded racer and the gear-head who's been watching from shore and thinks he can make one go just a little bit faster by smoothing up some of the casting rises in the nozzle or putting a different plastic wedge in it (I resemble both these guys by the way).

For example, here is my thrifty mind working (as if I had a mind), I,m in need of a ware ring and impeller change, as all of us are on occasion. If its going to cost me 2 pesos to have that done with a stock impeller and either a stock ring or a UHMW ring, and these guys are telling me that the next time I'll need this done it will only cost me 1 peso if I put the UHMW in now, because all I'll need to replace is an impeller. Somebody check my math but here is an aftermarket part, that enhances performance, is available to everyone, and that is more cost effective for the racer, at least for the AWJA racer. I'm Sure there are other parts and mods that could fulfill the some criteria in this example.

If UIM could change there rule to include this "part" as "legal" that would make it better for the racer and thus better for the class. If AWJA could align they're rule along the same thinking and trying to keep the poor boy in it. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd both ended up with the some rules. Wouldn't that be great for the class? As it stands right now I'll need two pumps for any attempt to be competitive under the different rules. Lets make that three because the next time I run up the river to shoot one of those Canadian geese for Christmas dinner I won't want to ding my UIM legal ware ring while dredging the bottom or bust my AWJA legal droop snoot on that hidden basalt boulder, that could be an expensive goose.

From now on the little blue gator you see in the avatar will be referred to as "Go Go Gadget" or "Gadget" (for short) for all the parts I'll need to be changing (I wanted to name it "Woket" but that already been taken).

P.S. The word "gals" may be substituted for the word "guys" anywhere in this post. I don't want to forget about you gal racers.

Cheers

[shallowman]

well it sure has stirred up a hornets nest when it comes to gaining a couple mph in the racing end of things
so I think that Mercury should reply to me about this wear ring as it really has proved its self over and over it would be a huge asset for there over the counter parts and then racers would have the choice of what they would like to run without changing anything on the motor leave it stock
and go racing as long as the motor puts out 240HPs who cares what parts you put in to make it go faster It is called racing
When I drag raced cars a way back when you could do anything to gearing or trannies or tires as long as each class had the same HPs and cubic inches
this makes everyone do there home work and I think that fair
And yes I do know Jay Stojan

Let,er Buck

[givermoregas]

Shallow man, sorry to continue with the hi jacking of your original post to promote and advertise your product which looks like it is a good idea. But any advertising is good advertising.

I'm with Wilson, if I'm going to get into racing the SJ class I want a set of rules for motor and pump, but also want to use parts that will last so I agree with what KJet is saying. I have the SS sleeve in my pump, came that way from Eagle, they all do I think. Do the those fellers that are racing legally remove this $500 option and install a Mercury original?
Seems a lot of the comments are from those who it seems don't own sport jets and don't intend to race this class.
So your telling me I cant run a UHMW liner all summer and then use the same set up to go racing because I'll go too fast and scare of some potential future racer. So what about the guy who can afford to install a new stock wear ring and impeller at the start of each race ???????? He might be faster than me, ooooh no!

[WILSON]

Kjet: I agree that the UHMW wear ring is better and being more cost effective, is an improvement for the sport jet.

I also agree with the 2 pesos cost being reduced to 1 peso in the future is cheaper and therefore, better for the class.

The problem with the UIM rule is that the UHMW wear ring is NOT READILY AVAILABLE worldwide through the Jet drive manufacturer network.

UIM rules are international. The case for Sport Jet guys in Mexico, Canada and New Zealand is that:

1.- We don´t know about this new wear ring, or for any effect, any other invention that might improve the jet drive. The idea for an entry level class is that no racer should have a competitive advantage for having extra knowledge not available from the Jet unit dealer.

2.- For us guys outside the U.S. it becomes more expensive to bring special parts from the U.S. For us, it's not a question of 2 pesos against one peso in the future, but 4 or 6 pesos against 2 in the future. In many cases, the special parts become more expensive for us because of the freight charges involved.

Again, I understand the driver's point of wanting a boat that can race anywhere and is cost effective. It's just that sometimes what's more cost effective in the U.S. is not so overseas.

The AWJA rule is fine, considering that most racers in the U.S. can and are using off the counter parts. The UIM rule covers racers that can't and are not using off the counter parts.

Please don't think I'm trying to convince anyone of which rule philosophy is better. I still don't know yet...

[Alumaman]

[gary weaver]

I run both plastic and ss, a little more speed with the plastic until the air temp reaches 80f and for some reason the ss is a mile or so advantage. I would like to see the rules changed so we could have an option. I will probably run the ss in the Albany race because that is what the other guys will be running. If it is cool I still have the option to run the plastic under awja rules.
I ordered the plastic from RLS in Lewiston Idaho last winter and am very happy with it. I did see a speed change for some reason when the summer months jumped up and then changed back to ss, which is a bit faster when the temp hit a cool 106 last week.
Very interesting reading on other racers thoughts on the sj subject.
Cheers,
gw

[shallowman]

I know that in most cases the plastic is faster But can,t understand why the different when the air temp. got hot because the water temp would not change that much so I think it was better air for your engine on the day you ran your stainless Just a thought I have no problem with the side tracking of my product I just hope Mercury will talk to me besides this gives me Great exposure for everyone to read about racing and the rules plus the UHMW wear ring I can supply if they so wish

Let,er Buck

[KJet]

Shallowman,

I'm sure your product and services will go far and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. For the AWJA SJ racer and the weekend rock crusher I consider it a must.

Although, it took me longer than everyone else to understand, I believe the UHMW wear ring could eventually be included within the UIM SJ rule set by falling into the nature of the rules. So I guess your biggest hurtle is global availability and now were talking Shallowman's Worldwide UHMW Wear Ring Franchises.

Isn't enterprise a beautiful thing?

Again, GOOD LUCK Shallowman

And thank you Wilson,

Wilson, after looking at the pictures of your race boat in the Trinity River site, I have some other questions for you on how I may set my boat up, if you don't mind. I'll PM you later. Thanks!