OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

Well the seasons over and both engines had there ups and downs. Time to get some input on what guys think before the meeting on Sat 14th. I will give you my opinion and you guys can take it away.

I put this over at the Bratt forum but no one is chiming in lets see what happens over here.
The lsx454 performed better than expected and although we did experience some engine trouble we feel that we got that nailed down and winter dyno testing can verify it. Even with that they were not expensive to repair. The LSX454 fits right into A class anyhow and although we may be slighly out gunned in a world event they should hold there own. I see it as a great and natural progression for the fx/cx guys that want to move up without spending the huge money for a new engine and to re rig your boat. I do however beleive that this class is no place for the A-spec engine. The engines seem to run fine and definataly make big power(almost900 hp)but that comes with a pretty hefty price tag that does not work for my racing budget. The motor is really an all out unlimitted engine minus some compression. For those who are ok with that then I think they should be welcome to it but just in there own class.

What we are really looking for here is guys to make the comittment so it can be brought forth at the meeting.

Arthur · Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject:

I will get in on this being this will be one of 2 choices when I move up after the Worlds in Canada. I'm a big fan of Louie and AMS as a builder, but I can not see myself dropping the 26K+ to get into a A-spec.(thats a decent pre-run boat or the cost of a turbine) I like seeing him at every race and all the support he gives every team when approached, but it makes more sense to me to have the LSX engine. The crates are proving to be great and availability is almost in every town with maybe a week wait tops. Plus if you're smart enough you can get GM warranty if you play your cards right. Now I don't know Louie's schedule and what the turn around would be if he was flat out, but I'm assuming it's over a week if you needed a tear down or rebuild.(I'm sure he would make time if it was race week) The numbers we were looking for was 120mph and you are not that far off. I don't think the extra money or city trips is worth 5-10 more mph IMO. But that's just my thinking. Dale's boat was the best looking and sounding boat when it ran and I'm sure with time he will see a great handling 120mph+ boat. I would be curious to see two estimates coming from OE or Bratt on brand new 21' rig outs. I know they just did a CX from scratch, but cannot remember the numbers. 2 cents

Dale · Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 173

I think the most important thing we have to do when we are changing rules is to make the changes to be “what is right for the sport”. Meaning that we should not make a change to be what is best for racing in Canada or what is best for me. That being said my thought a year ago was to save A class form the chopping block of the UIM and the Canadian series. A class still has a great future in this sport but I don’t believe it will be at the original 470CID. This engine size was picked some 30+ years ago when the only engine block we could build off was the GM454 or the 460 ford. Those days are long gone and so is the need to keep this class this size. Also if we leave the 470CID size in place I can guarantee that we will have $40,000+ LSX motors racing in that class and we have not changed or improved anything.

As Mark stated “hefty price tag that does not work for my racing budget” I would like to remind him that this engine is still $10-15,000 less than the old Unlimited engines and $15-3?,000 less than some of the A class engines that are out there at this time. Which would put it right where an “A” class team should be budgeting? I do believe that to keep CX class alive and well there should be a sizable step up to the next class. Also the Step up is speed has to be sizable.

And a $15-20,000 increase in “cost TO race” between classes isn’t bad. There is still a $50,000 step to get into a turbine boat after “A Spec” class. We have seen a big drop in FX racers this year because of the small increase in cost to step up and race a CX boat.

“Cost OF racing” has to be about the same from A-spec to LSX454 as they seem to be about the same to repair, other than if you have MAJOR damage to your engine. Most likely the A-Spec motors burning Av-gas would be cheaper than pumping the good stuff into the LSX.

I don’t believe that the UIM class makers could be talked into going to the “A spec” style engine, but for Canadian races this is the best way to control the cost, “tech inspecting”, and to keep the power levels the same and the racing tight. As for the UIM class change I thing we could spec a change to the CID with a MAX carburetor size and intake height, leaving the rest open, would be a good place to start? And MAYBE a chance to the “forced Induction Multiplication factor” to allow up to the LSX 376 engines to run here also?

Dale

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

Agree with you there about what is being right for the sport. The natural progression is with the LSX as many of the patrs and acc are interchangable. It also does keep costs to a minimum so racers can spend more time racing/tuning as appossed scraping money together for the big jump to the A spec engine.
As for a 40,000 lsx the same rules can apply that are there for cx and fx. A sealing program is also an option if needed.

If we did not have FX and CX classes we would not actually be holding races as most origanol A,B,C, and unlimited guys have all stopped racing or are onto other things. We were down to having a hard time getting 3 boats in any of the classes before fx came along. The time of the racing for only the good ol boys has passed. The guys coming racing are younger and some do not have the diposable income that others have. (unfortionataly I fall into the ol boy place mostly just old). lol. If they are forced to stay in FX and cx only, the numbers of racer will decline.

I would love to hear from some FX and cx guys on this as it really has alot to do with them.

Arthur · Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject:

Don't get me wrong...I love the idea of a proven reliable Louie motor pushing 120mph. All I'm saying is dollar for dollar I think a New A spec tunnel would cost 10-15k more than a new LSX if you went that way. I know many would not walk into OE and drop 80-90k....but it puts it into perspective.

Arthur · Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject:

There will also be a huge test for the A spec in Oct....if it will finish a marathon, it will say a lot for reliability and its future.

Itsworthit · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 432 Location: Whitecourt

Bring back B class for the LSX and the old 366's, then put the A-spec in with 470's in A class, just an idea I heard over beer and wings

Itsworthit · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 432 Location: Whitecourt

LSX and A-Spec defiantly do not belong in the same class, the original idea of running them together was a trial and experiment, now that there is a year under our belt and A class has been revitalized, I am concerned where the A-Spec will be placed in the worlds in 2015

I can see more guys coming up from CX class wanting to get to the 120 mph mark with the A-Spec, rather than 115 with the LSX when they are going 108 now, (just saying)

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

shallowman · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 199

u made me laugh Mark , u meant with your hull tuning experience ,u can get a lsx to 120 mph,, well i know how fast u go and it right up there , a-spec guys can always see u just behind them and most times infront on a top end pull

your boat rocks my friend
Cool

cx_crew · Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 12

Agree Mark more cx guys are talking LSX the A class. than the spec engine

MISSBHAVEN · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:34 am Post subject:

MISSBHAVEN · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:46 am Post subject:

Itsworthit · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 432 Location: Whitecourt

Here's another idea, (beers talking again), what the hell do we need the UIM for?? Why can't we just have races ourselves, like one old racer says, do it and they will come! We can have our own rules, and he the UIM book as a guideline, but if we find something that works, we can just do it, while respecting input from other countries.
Just for the record, I believe that there is a place in racing for both the LSX and the A-Spec, this whole conversation is not about the 2 motor competing against each other or being in favor of one and not the other. The experiment and trial this year worked out really well and now we have the issue of deciding what to do with the outcome.
I agree we can't keep making up classes every two or three years, but if something is popular like both of these motors, shouldn't the executive try to fit them in competitively
What happens to racers when they have gone the 115 mph with the LSX? There should be somewhere to go rather than a turbine

Arthur · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject:

I don't mind Jesse's idea I read yesterday, but it will open up the whole 'U' thing again. I think this year we had a record 6 Turbines in one race. UNREAL! I honestly don't think a 'U' piston boat has shot against those things as long as they stay together....

'U' TURBINE..... 140MPH
'U' PISTON.... 120+MPH
'LSX' 454..... 115MPH
'CX' 525...105MPH
'FX' ZZ4....90MPH

This will allow everyone to utilize the engines they have laying around with whatever goes in 'U' Piston. If the A-spec holds together in NZ in Unlimited Dale has a good shot with his driving skills against the 4 Turbines. I heard this makes more power than his last 'U' engine did and reliability should be there. Time will tell, just thought I'd add some more fuel on the fire Smile