OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[steelhead]

Being a member of other outdoor sports related forum, I have come across this tidbit of news while defending jets in Alberta from the anti's.


Barry White, a driftboat guide on the bow river is taking pictures and putting forth, with the help of Trout Unlimited, A proposal to the Federal Gov. (provincial gov. has no say on what to do with federal waters) To have the Bow river, from Carseland wier to the South Calgary border CLOSED TO ALL POWERBOATS. They were successfull at having the city of Calgary close the river in its boundries to powerboats.

He has attempted to do this many times in the past, and hasnt been successful. With the Fishing forums related to fly angling gaining strength, they are gathering alot of support.

If this is successfull, it opens the doors to the closing of many rivers that fit the Bows description. Other targets are the Wapiti upstream of Redwillow (save the bulltrout), Oldman upstream of Lethbridge (another trout section). The Red Deer below Dickson (brown trout) is a major target also with a few high profile individuals who fish this stretch, to take up the cause.


The wheels are in motion from thier side and they are gaining some good backing.


Mind you, They are using negative but unsubstantiated and false jet boat info to fuel thier cause, but there has been no one to offer opposing points of view and correct the mistakes in the information they use to back up thier position.


Since I am new to this forum, and new to the jet boat world, (7 years) ...


I was wondering....


Is there a group to back up the jetters of alberta?

Is there an individual who is backing jetters in AB?

What are other members thoughts on this?

Am I worrying over nothing or am I doing the right thing by posting this here?



I appreciate all replies.

Thanks!


STEELHEAD









About me. Serious angler, I run outboard jets. I build them also, but not with the same materials nor do I do it commercially.

I dont want our rivers shut down

[146aquaholic]

In the Grande Prarie area we have the Grande Prarie river rats, a non profit club with over 250 members, there are a few others in the province and a cause like this should stir the numbers to swell in all clubs, blocking our access to rivers we have traditionaly used should be fought .

thanks for bringing this up, the alarm needs to be sounded

[steelhead]

Is there an organization in the southern part of this province?


I wouldnt mind joining one if there is.

[boosted]

I would like to say that the groups trying to close the waterways mentioned do not have a leg to stand. It is unlawful to close a navigable water way according to the coast guard. Now that being said I have been amazed at what special inerest groups have been able to accomplish without having to provide proof of the issues at hand.

Maybe it is time to unite the boating clubs in Alberta or even other provinces to provide a voice to the side of the people that use the river for boating.

Mark

[uliwon]

Well there are always a few ruining it for others.

rarely does a trout fisherman, floating in a rowboat, or wading deep in the river, disturb or out-right change the course of a jet boaters day...can't say the same for an ass in a power boat...

Don't get me wrong, i have a jet, and i would use it there, my buddy uses his Tomcat there too...but he and I are fly fisherman, so we 'get it' so to speak...(I even worked for Barry back in the 80's, when there was a grand total of 2-3 Jet's on the whole river, all fishermen to boot)

Some pointers for those who don't know..

1) Don't blow by a guy waded out to his tits...its flat out dangerous...he could be swamped and drown.

2) Don't rip by a guy fishing, go down the opposite side of the river, or better yet, idle by when you can, if a boat is parked and two guys are sneaking up the bank after a trout, chances are a big wake is going to blow there fishing, that doesn't help the cause

3) don't rip up back channels unless you know nobody is up there fishing...etc, etc

That guy you blow off is the same guy who helps you at the launch when you discover a dead battery or flat tire etc,

It very easy to make a case for a power limitation in this day and age, particularly if its under high use by multiple users, The Bow is a world renown, high class trout fishery, people pay big bucks to fish it.

Respect the river and its other users, practice common sense.

Jet's and Anglers get along just fine elsewhere...but the Bow is a unique multi-million dollar fishery and a big-time economic provider to many people, it won't be hard to ban boats if jet boaters continue to flip the bird to the fisherman (common response to being 'spoken to' about it) and threaten not only their safety but everybody's over-all enjoyment.

[steelhead]

I am a fly angler myself, also a multi-specie angler with many methods. I have 2 drift boats and I use them more than jets on the Bow.

17 years ago I was a passenger on my friends jet that was parked along the bow at his cabin.

I have and still guide the bow through referrals.


I have also lived in many other provinces that have very stringent and policed boating laws.


Many fly anglers, or any Alberta angler be it boat or wading, have 0 to no clue of boating laws in a navigable channel or federal waterway. Fly angling drifboaters and waders are the most clueless to these laws. Highly clueless! I quized Barry on that once and he got wizzed off and left. Dont you think a fishing guide should know the boating laws? I certainly do!

When a jet boat lawfully runs past ,the fly anglers just dont like it, no matter if you stay 100 meters away and idle down, they just dont like it.

So then the stories get sensationalized into a " that jerk jetter" and " irresponsible" bunch of lies and stories.

I will agree, theres one or two that ruin it. Majority are lawfull and ethical.

Yah, they mighty bow river. I live 5 mins from it. Been fishing it for 20 years. Guided it. Helped research it. Rescued anglers (waders, tubers and driftboaters) on it with my jet. Watched it flood. Watched it freeze.

But yah, not too many fly anglers see that when I drive past in a Jet. They see the boat, they hate the boat and the person operating it. They make up stories about how I ruined thier day and i'm the arse.

What I am saying, these PURIST fly anglers just cant share. And yes, I am blaming them. Why you ask?

Because its them that wants the nice quiet river to themselves and themselves only. (lol, in a city of a million, with noisy roads and gravel pits along its route, on a river thats constantly smells like sewage with tampooons and con domes floating down, city garbage and debris, poachers, air traffic, algal blooms from runnoff, beer cans, summer time tube floaters, canoeists, birdwatchers, quadders, dog stick throwers, walkers, runners, curiosity seekers) It aint like it was in the 80's sir. it is no longer a high class fishery. You can get bigger trout and better numbers in BC, and thats where the clients are going.

They share, without much complaint, with all the above I listed.

But a jet goes by and is gone in seconds giving back some peace to the angler, and they will still blame the jet boat.

Uliwon said....
"rarely does a trout fisherman, floating in a rowboat, or wading deep in the river, disturb or out-right change the course of a jet boaters day...can't say the same for an ass in a power boat... "

So, a jet boater going past and gone in seconds ruins a fly anglers WHOLE day? Hows that again? Its never bothered me when i drifted or waded. Perhaps its the outrageous story they spun to justify thier own crappy day. Maybee?
Yet my day was ruined as a jetter when trying to avoid a floatilla of drifters and waders, illegally blocking the channel, and I came off plane in a gravel bed. Think they would help? Only one person, and he walked back along shore to help as he felt bad knowing I was being an ethical boater and got dumped attempting that. I took him fishing for the day, dropped him back to his buddies. He called them all jerks for what they said about me and thier crappy attitude towards a fellow angler. I made that fly anglers day, but ruined his buddies?

No matter what you come up with,, it all goes both ways.


Alberta fly anglers are quite unique from my observations.

Greedy.


If you give the greedy what they want, they will find a way to get more and more.


Oh yah, and the Bow is not a multimillion dollar fishery (who are you kidding?).
If it was commercially fished it would be. But guiding, who gets that money? Not the Taxpayers who pay for its upkeep, not the government, they get a pittance in taxes from the guides. The counties who put up signs, benches, and boatlaunches?

No, the guides use it and we pay for it and they keep all thiers and our money.

Because there is a hundred million guides on that river now. (This isnt the 80's.) They have undercutt each other to get business. People dont pay big bucks to fish it now. You and another can go for 200 bucks!! None of them make money, including Barry. And hes blaming jets for that, not the saturation of new guides in the industry.

And they want to kick us off thier river? And make up stories to back up thier position? That just aint right in any situation.


I'm sorry for the rant. I am on the fence being a drift boater and a jetter, like you. But living here and working it and dealing with these people more than the average person or guide, My conclusion is its a greed based action these people are taking to stop jets...

..... because they just cant share with other respectable boaters.


maybee I said too much?


STEELHEAD

[uliwon]

Point taken...I'm just offering an opinion...an opinion i've heard over and over from the other side...my dad still guides there, as do many old friends.

And judging by how many fly-shops operate in Calgary, and related heavy guiding use as pointed out...its multi-million...do the math...those shops all do a million a year give or take...it add's up

its too bad the Bow is over-run with guides and boaters...maybe a rod-day classification system like BC is needed...limited access to protect the experience...a whole other debate i'm sure.

You never know what you HAD till its gone...guys like Barry remember the old days and i'm sure want it back

Scott

[uliwon]

Point taken...I'm just offering an opinion...an opinion i've heard over and over from the other side...my dad still guides there, as do many old friends.

And judging by how many fly-shops operate in Calgary, and related heavy guiding use as pointed out...its multi-million...do the math...those shops all do a million a year give or take...it add's up

its too bad the Bow is over-run with guides and boaters...maybe a rod-day classification system like BC is needed...limited access to protect the experience...a whole other debate i'm sure.

You never know what you HAD till its gone...guys like Barry remember the old days and i'm sure want it back

Scott

[steelhead]

My intent wasnt to bash you and did not want it to come across that way. I also offer just a point of view, but a point of view of many.

I do appreciate your point of view and consider its points.


Keep in mind, with hundreds of miles of trout bearing rivers and lakes within 100kms of calgary, the fly shops dont cater exclusively to Bow river anglers. Many anglers have moved away from the Bow for more quiet and productive waters. The multi-million dollar Bow has degraded into minor income waters compared to other waters. The Oldman watershed has been a bigger draw to Alberta with guides from the Bow moving south to fill in its void. Its quieter and more customer friendly.

My buddies fly shop is barely holding on as are his competition. Bass pro shop, wholesale sports and the fishing hole are undercutting the fly section to keep up with each other. How can a small shop compete? They cant. His wife works. Competition is a killer.

With a million on its doorstep, theres no peace anymore. Clients dont want that nor the smell of sewage. Its not the jets scaring them, its the general overuse and industrialization of the river valley. You should hear what some of my clients say about that section of river. So much so, we have moved to the Oldman.

I hear the drifboaters complaining how many driftboats are on there on the weekend. Their numbers outrank any jets on there. The waders hate the driftboats as they float through thier runs but are too lazy to row away from the hole. Drifboaters hate the waders as the fill a run and they have to avaiod a productive hole for thier clients.


Of course it will never be the way it was, we all wish the old times back, but it aint gonna happen.

With all the other inconvieniences guides face on the bow, they have targeted jets as the worst offenders. Not overfishing by the general public.

I guess they had to pick one to make a stand against, and it isnt against the millions of other users that compound the problem.


Either way, what we say here is meaningless and contradictory. It all boils down to one thing.

Greed and people who cant, or dont want to share as they believe thier way is the right and only way.

It is everyones not just a select few guides private waters.

If they learn to share it can work very very well as it does on many other rivers in the same circumstances. They share, with some complaint, with many many other driftboaters and waders, why not with one or 5 jets also?



If you all have a second in your day, go visit the Flyfish Calgary forum. FFC i think its called. Browse through the posts. You will see the anti-jet posts. You will also see the pro jet posts entered by fly anglers who jet. Its rediculous these people and the heated exchanges these anglers have.

Read a few. It may change your mind on what you think of the Bow and its anglers.


STEELHEAD

[uliwon]

Oh i understand...i still go there every year and hear all about it...maybe even in a few weeks...although its to fish for PIKE! hahaha

And i know people fish elsewhere, but no Bow river and there would maybe one shop...and like all fly shops, it would barely be there...

Too bad its been taken for granted and abused....great river

[bender]

i am a fly fisherman here but love to jetboat and can see both sides of the coin , but i hate the talk especially when they talk about shutting down rivers and areas to jet boaters , maybe we should start passing out petitions to rid our waterways of invasive fish species that arent supposed to be here ..... rainbow trout ... brown trout ....brook trout ....it seems to me they are all considered invasive and with the exception of the athabasca where rainbows are native none should be in alberta ....it seems the trout unlimited just turns a blind eye to that fact conveinently ....its all self serving bullshit at the end of the day myself personally i avoid taking my jet boat 18' on the bow becuase i can undertasnd the frustration but if i had a small ob jet i would be all over the bow with it

[Dano]

[big block]

i have run the bow, and my take is the larger high hp boats are frowned upon, if it does not look like a fishing boat it does not belong there, i try and stay off that part of the bow, to much bs.

[Dale]

Great discussion here. I’ve been jet boating for close to 16 years, in Canada the US and New Zealand. And it does seem like there are more problems in Alberta than anywhere else in the world. Most other countries don’t have their waterways protected for single interest groups, like Canada, and they seem to be able to get along quite well together.
Most of the problems I’ve had have been with the “want to be fisherman” the one that fishes within sight of his car under a noisy bridge or inside city limits. These guys seem to have their days ruined very easily. I have ran into Barry (was told it was him) on the Red Deer also, very single interest minded individual. When I meet a guy fishing in the middle of nowhere that has hiked in a couple of miles to fish, I’ve always gotten a wave a respect from them, great and the way it should be using the river together.
I’ve always given the fisherman the right of way and the time they need to finish reeling in, but it does become hard when there is that 1% that wants to be in a battle. And I realize that is that 1% in our jet boating group that needs some education about ethic’s also.
I have tried 3 times to have a CARBA (Central Alberta River Boat Association) meeting at our shop, the most people we have had shown up was 5. CARBA has been around for 30 years they have a good sized bank account and have been active in the past to help us all out with the single interest group issues in the past. They need some new blood and some people that want to be active in the community, with river clean-ups ECT. I’m prepared to have another meeting and try to get the club going again but need to know there will be more that 3 people involved.
Dale

[Wocket16]

I think Dale is right on the money. This is the kind of action it takes (organizations like CARBA and WWA) coupled with the attitude that the rivers are there for everyone to use.
No I don't live there, it is just an observation based on watching all this kind of stuff over the years on the rivers where I do live.