OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

Xerophobic

Im about ready to outfit Xerophobic with a legal rollcage so I can eventually enter BBFX(I hope)
I'd like to hear oppinions and hear some factual input from those in the know about cages and what to do/not do. Ive read the rules and wasn't planning straying too far from what I have seen but I am curious about what has failed in accidents that have been seen(if anything). Im planning on a main hoop under the existing outer alum. Is this high enough? I'll brace that with 2 rear bars and 2 forward and an Xbrace and bulkhead
Please any feedback is apreciated since this is serious stuff
Cheers

Xerophobic · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject:

oh and another thing I have yet to decide. I have seen cages bolted on using plates right thru the hull and ones bolted to plates welded between the sides and tunnel inside the boat. Any thoughts on either method? Thru hull would seem best from a strength standpoint but is there anything else to consider??

Thoughts on center bars to the dash? Im not fond of the idea from a vision/obstruction standpoint but safety...?

Also noticed Sunset Shaker had a very odd looking extension on the Cage in NZ was that to meet a different rule requirement?
Enough questions for now...

MidwetJetSprint · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago Metro

Didymos roll cage

MidwetJetSprint · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago Metro

Side view of roll cage

Cavefish · Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Klamath, CA, USA

One real life test was Steve Hanlin/Steve Davis Holy Guacamole roll at Hoopa, California in 2004. They had an Eagle two hoop cage, hooked it and did a single roll onto a rock/gravel bar and it held up darn well. It did get pushed sideways, oh maybe 5 inches at the top, maybe add cross bracing into the upper corners? Their cage had no x bracing. No issues with the mounting that I noticed and I'm pretty sure this was a through hull sandwich pad. There roll was almost entirely sideways, not a lot of forward motion by the time it actually went upside down.
The center bar does get in your vision but you adjust to it pretty quickly. It also makes a nice grab bar to shove yourself down into the seat. I know of no real life test of one so far, thank goodness. I guess the idea is that it will keep the cage from digging in if you are sliding forward upside down. I haven't a clue if it would really help or not. They are great for hitting your head on when you are working on things in the cockpit though!
Wink

As far as height, by the rules, the whole mess has to clear the top of your HELMET by two inches. I would advise you not to build it with ANY bars directly above your head with this clearance in a normal seating position, way too easy to get your bell rung by being flung straight up into it. If you are putting bars directly above your head give yourself lots more than two inches.
Bulkheads always seemed like a really great idea to me, you've noticed the air blowing forward from the back into the cockpit when you are going? My current boat has a fuel tank for a bulkhead Surprised

, affectionatly known as "the zippo". The new one has the tanks in the wings and I will have a solid bulkhead for fire protection.

Xerophobic · Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:

Of course I forgot to mention the more pics the better haha

I was also offered that boat once it had been repaired when I had my want ad running but I had already pretty much decided on my hull by then, and it was a much better deal to get started in. Im quite familiar with that crash video as well and I watch it often to remind me how important this stuff is.

I'd planned on tucking the main hoop right under the existing alum outer to keep the look clean and it may even be that much stronger having the outer alum one tight to it. I assume with normally positioned race seats that will place the bar far enough behind my head not to be an issue.

Always had planned on making an X brace /bulkehad very similar to the alum one that was in the hull when built

I'll get enough material to add the center bar if I decide but for the reasons you state I don't like the idea much(banging head)

I think Gary should show up in this thread and give me an update on how his cage worked out. I recall he sent me alot of very good shots of what he did to the boat.

Cheers

Cavefish · Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Klamath, CA, USA

There is a picture of that Super-steptech that Rob built somewhere on this site- it has, in my opinion, a really great cage. It looks like an Eagle cage with a cross bar plus one diagonal. I'd add another diagonal for the navigator and call it good. The old aluminum cages by themselves were obviously not as strong as a new chromoly one would be but would absolutely add strength
the way you are planning on doing it. Gary's setup is a very tough looking one too. The guy really thinks about things, wait'll you get a look at their boat sometime...
So hey, what's the chances we'll see you racing at Whitecourt or one of the U.S. races?

Guest · Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject:

delete

MidwetJetSprint · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago Metro

Like the one on my sprint boat

MidwetJetSprint · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago Metro

Is there something causing the color to be washed out??

Guest · Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject:

If you click on the picture it comes out normal color.

Xerophobic · Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject:

Thanks again for the tips/info guys

probably not much chance of me seeing a race this year as a driver anyway. Slim at best. I am planning on being out west by summer and hopefully get enough experience and boat time to comfortably run some the following year and hopefully have a go at the worlds since its in the backyard so to speak. Who knows tho when it comes down to it, relocating across country has been a little harder to organise for more than few reasons
Im sure the board will be the first to know of my plans. Im going to order my tube this week and get started.

SouthIdahoGary · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Wilder, ID, USA

Xerophobic-
We are one of the few that run a forward tube. After taking the boat into the trees on The Upper Rogue in 2004, we were extremely glad it was there. I saw it deflect 4 inch tree limbs that were headed right for my face and shoulders. As we went into the trees, the first one (tree) rolled us up on edge and the forward tube was what saved our faces and shoulders. We hit one tree trunk with the forward tube that was over 8 inches in diameter. It just moved it out of the way. Would have "eaten" that one otherwise. My brother, Duane, who drives the boat, stated afterwards that he did not ever want to be in a race boat without the forward tube. It offers NO forward vision problems. It is completely "unseen" in a running situation. I mount several gauges and a grab handle to it. When navigating it helps to have something to brace yourself with and it keeps gauges at a point that is easy to read without taking my eyes off the river. Besides it just looks more extreme Very Happy

Our Chromoly is all tucked inside the existing aluminum, even the forward tube. Another thing to consider, we had some tubing forward braced off the hoop that protects our sides and hips. If you still have the pictures you can see it running down the side of the seat at an angle to brace about where your calf would be.

Good luck with the roll bar building. It really is fairly cheap and light when you consider what it is protecting. It is a lot easier to do it all the first time than to do the "oh damn" I wish I / should have put some steel there.

Did an edit here. Went looking and still had a picture saved of the forward brace....

MidwetJetSprint · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago Metro

Hey South the pictures of my boats roll cage where shot in your back yard in Marsing my buddy has a shop and lives right on the Snake river just south of town.

Xerophobic · Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:

You bet I still have all those pics Gary, I couldn't bare to delete them after the trouble you went to to take them. I got a laugh at the one from under the dash with your legs sticking up lol

I had planned on putting a bar in just like you show, and probably mainly because it seems logical and because of your pic!. That is also a perfect pic to show what I was asking about before. You seem to have gone the "inside hull" mount vs the sandwich plate method. Any issues or regrets there? I do like the idea of less holes thru the hull but as you said this is no place to skimp just for looks or the possibility of a small leak. Im giving serious thought to the center bar and stories like that make me think even harder. I'm buying enough tube to do it regardless and it can always be added once the rest of the cage is built. I do know I will endup exploring some rivers with the boat before and maybe even after it ever see's a race and I just know the bar will be a PITA then. But I can't have everything in my visions of this weird hybrid race/adventure boat I seem to want to build.