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Xerophobic



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ntjetboater wrote:

The big question is how much authority do they really have on the water? Fish Cops are carrying pistols now.
Are there speed limits on lakes and rivers outside city limits?
Is a radio law?
Does the boat have to be registered with #'s?
Do you need a POC(boat drivers Liscense) NWT not yet.
Insurance?
Obviously open liquor and DD is what they are mainly trying to stop. We have all seem some funny stuff at boat launches..
And the stuff happening around Kamloops doesn't help either..wasnt it shuswap lake where the ski boat driver parked his 22ft ski boat in a 30ft pontoon boat and ran over a couple people.


You sure about this Vince? Pretty sure the operators card is a federal law and applies everywhere in the country.

Its a federal offense to operate a vessel without reg #'s

The only time you can legally drink on a boat is when it has an implied liquor licence the same as you house does(or camp site etc) that generally means it must be stationary(at anchor) AND have all means to "support" its occupants. That means cooking, peeing and sleeping facilities for ALL aboard. There is NEVER a case when you can legally drink in a vessel which is moving(unless it is a larger vessel with a specific liquor licence). Floating down the river in an unpowered vessel while drinking will get you a ticket the same as sitting in a parked car drinking. Transporting booze must be EITHER sealed OR unacessable. If a cop asks you where you are transporting the booze I would politely tell him its none of his business.

Its a complete myth that a police officer cannot enforce marine laws. Read most Acts in this country and they specify that a wide variety of people can enforce them. I certainly will agree most Police officers wont have the first clue what the laws are and I would strongly urge everyone to do ALOT of reading. As has been said there is nothing worse than haveing some wannabe think they know more than you. If you do your homework you WILL know more than 99% of enforcement officers and I think thats the key to navigating rivers legally. I have done a tremendous amount of reading on this topic and there are alot of rules which apply to us specifically which most users do not have the first clue exist.

All of us should already know that there are only speed limits (10 km/hr) within 30m from shore on lakes and rivers in most of the country unless they are LESS than 100m wide in which case they are exempt. It is CRITICAL to know this as there are a great deal of people who dont, or dont understand it.

Also know that tickets issued under the Canada Shipping Act are federal tickets and will likely involve a court appearance. I almost bet my boat the people charging, processing, prosecuting and judging any cases brought before them will have NEVER dealt with one of these before, EVER. So your best defense is to know your stuff, before it happens.


Know your rights folks......

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Boomhower



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 995

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Someone has been brushing up on the Reg's.
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boosted



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xerophobic wrote:
ntjetboater wrote:

The big question is how much authority do they really have on the water? Fish Cops are carrying pistols now.
Are there speed limits on lakes and rivers outside city limits?
Is a radio law?
Does the boat have to be registered with #'s?
Do you need a POC(boat drivers Liscense) NWT not yet.
Insurance?
Obviously open liquor and DD is what they are mainly trying to stop. We have all seem some funny stuff at boat launches..
And the stuff happening around Kamloops doesn't help either..wasnt it shuswap lake where the ski boat driver parked his 22ft ski boat in a 30ft pontoon boat and ran over a couple people.


You sure about this Vince? Pretty sure the operators card is a federal law and applies everywhere in the country.

Its a federal offense to operate a vessel without reg #'s

The only time you can legally drink on a boat is when it has an implied liquor licence the same as you house does(or camp site etc) that generally means it must be stationary(at anchor) AND have all means to "support" its occupants. That means cooking, peeing and sleeping facilities for ALL aboard. There is NEVER a case when you can legally drink in a vessel which is moving(unless it is a larger vessel with a specific liquor licence). Floating down the river in an unpowered vessel while drinking will get you a ticket the same as sitting in a parked car drinking. Transporting booze must be EITHER sealed OR unacessable. If a cop asks you where you are transporting the booze I would politely tell him its none of his business.

Its a complete myth that a police officer cannot enforce marine laws. Read most Acts in this country and they specify that a wide variety of people can enforce them. I certainly will agree most Police officers wont have the first clue what the laws are and I would strongly urge everyone to do ALOT of reading. As has been said there is nothing worse than haveing some wannabe think they know more than you. If you do your homework you WILL know more than 99% of enforcement officers and I think thats the key to navigating rivers legally. I have done a tremendous amount of reading on this topic and there are alot of rules which apply to us specifically which most users do not have the first clue exist.

All of us should already know that there are only speed limits (10 km/hr) within 30m from shore on lakes and rivers in most of the country unless they are LESS than 100m wide in which case they are exempt. It is CRITICAL to know this as there are a great deal of people who dont, or dont understand it.

Also know that tickets issued under the Canada Shipping Act are federal tickets and will likely involve a court appearance. I almost bet my boat the people charging, processing, prosecuting and judging any cases brought before them will have NEVER dealt with one of these before, EVER. So your best defense is to know your stuff, before it happens.


Know your rights folks......


Can I borrow your brain. I promise I will give it back after boating season. Laughing

Thanks for the info. very informative

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Lets go back I think we missed one rock!
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finally conviced her



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Lacombe, AB

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the document called that has boating rules in it?
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Jet lag



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Location: Peace River, AB

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of us don't have identification # on their crafts including myself, any one know how costly this infraction could be. I would say it will be the most obvious stop for routine check on the river.
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Xerophobic



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rules on the water in the country are coverd by the Canada Shipping Act... unfortunatly its not quite that simple. The Act has multiple parts covering a whole bunch of topics. You probably should be at least marginally familiar with:

That Act itself....

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulations/acts-2001c26.htm

Sections of main interest...

Collision regulations: (probably one of the most important parts to know - pay special attention to the "narrow channel regs")

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C.R.C.-c.1416/

The Small Vessel Regulations:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-2010-91/

Competency of Operators of Pleasure Craft Regulations:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-99-53/

To answer an earlier question about who can enforce these laws, here it is folks(basically youre shit out of luck)

“enforcement officer” means

(a) a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;
(b) a member of any harbour or river police force;
(c) a member of any provincial, county or municipal police force; and
(d) any person designated as an enforcement officer for the purposes of these Regulations by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. (agent d’exécution)


This isnt to say that half these people will know the law, but they are able to enforce it. One look at the size of these acts and you can bet the person you are dealing with more than likely will not know all the laws.

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Xerophobic



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet lag wrote:
Most of us don't have identification # on their crafts including myself, any one know how costly this infraction could be. I would say it will be the most obvious stop for routine check on the river.


I dont know the dollar figure either but I do know cops love to have that one trump card they can use as an excuse to A) pull you over and B) contoniue to threaten/hassle you about other stuff. I try to avoid giving them those "things" and that one is pretty obvious At the end of the day its probably the easiest thing to take care of, it doesnt even cost anything to register your boat!

Its worthy to note that just like on the street there are very limited things an officer can pull you over for on the water. check for licence, check for safety equipment and investigating a known infraction. They can NOT just pull you over at random. They will of course always throw out the safety/licence check thing, but honestly when you read caselaw for traffic attempts in this the courts have been a bit hesitant to always belive an officer using this reasoning. Its often seen to be what it is, an excuse to stop vehicles for "other" purposes (illegal searches/detentions etc) The best bet is to NOT give them a reason to in the first place, and seeing your vessel with no numbers hoops you right from the get go.

I also imagine if a guy is gonna be a real prick about it they can likely order you to cease using the vessel untill they have been aquired.

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Xerophobic



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to highlight this one section as events of last year caused alot of discussion(most of it frankly very uninformed) about what happens when we encounter other vessels on the river. Here are the regs and these apply to any, yes i repeat, ANY vessel on the water, REGARDLESS OF METHOD OF PROPULSION OR LACK THEREOF (hint hint floaters/paddlers)

If anyone tries to argue they dont know these rules its important to note they basically apply to the entire planet, not just Canadian waters!


Rule 9

Narrow Channels — International

(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

(b) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.

(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.



Very interesting stuff there. Note the "vessel not to impede" rule does NOT specify the size of the vessel to be "impeded". Meaning a 16 foot canoe cannot impede a 20' power vessel! The fishing one is interesting to note too

Keeping to the right altho common sense, is also the law, for everyone!

Rule 18

Responsibilities between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:(i) a vessel not under command,
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre,
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing,
(iv) a sailing vessel.


If you are surprised at the lack of a right of way of unpowered vessels over powered, dont be, its a myth! (do bicycles have right of way over cars??) Incidentally the ONLY time an upstream vessel has right of way over a downstream one is when BOTH vessels are powered.

Bottom line folks, and you may find this surprising....at NO TIME does a human powered vessel have an assumed right of way over your powered vessel, regardless of direction of travel upstream or downstream unless standard navigation rules apply. Its just like a bike on the road, the rules all still apply.

Cheers

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ram



Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 46
Location: Cochrane Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Just my 2 Cents Reply with quote

I think its great that the cops are going to be on the Rivers, I try to enjoy myself as much as anyone, within the confines of the law, and believe me if I find myself in need of assistance due to mechanical breakdown or find myself high and dry you can bet your ass I will be glad when a cop comes down the river, I think we all have our Boating licences now and I really dont think 410 HP and 12 Beer should ever be in the same equation, and I take comfort knowing that if I am out on the river and the Guy that thinks Heavy drinking and boating go hand in hand might think twice about being there and possibly stay on shore where he belongs, These guys are only doing there job and when anyone of us needs them we all know who to call, will it change much on the river. I dont think so, maybe for the better as it will weed out the bad apples that give us all bad names Idea
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Xerophobic



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Just my 2 Cents Reply with quote

ram wrote:
These guys are only doing there job and when anyone of us needs them we all know who to call,


When the time is right I will have ALOT more to say on this statement!

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Windowlicker



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to agree Ram
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shallow draft



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Rocky Mountain House

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Just my 2 Cents Reply with quote

ram wrote:
I think its great that the cops are going to be on the Rivers, I try to enjoy myself as much as anyone, within the confines of the law, and believe me if I find myself in need of assistance due to mechanical breakdown or find myself high and dry you can bet your ass I will be glad when a cop comes down the river, I think we all have our Boating licences now and I really dont think 410 HP and 12 Beer should ever be in the same equation, and I take comfort knowing that if I am out on the river and the Guy that thinks Heavy drinking and boating go hand in hand might think twice about being there and possibly stay on shore where he belongs, These guys are only doing there job and when anyone of us needs them we all know who to call, will it change much on the river. I dont think so, maybe for the better as it will weed out the bad apples that give us all bad names Idea


Do you really think anybody in a uniform will help you push off a gravel bar or help fix a mechanical problem?

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Last edited by shallow draft on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Morgan



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is going to be interesting with these new boat operators, they will be trying to pull up be side you on some of these fast moving rivers to get your paper work. Some guys put alot of time and money into there boats to have a Cop put a big old dent in the side or scratch up a paint job. Might be worth videoing them if they pull you over
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Dano



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Whitecourt, Alta.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Just my 2 Cents Reply with quote

ram wrote:
I think its great that the cops are going to be on the Rivers, I try to enjoy myself as much as anyone, within the confines of the law, and believe me if I find myself in need of assistance due to mechanical breakdown or find myself high and dry you can bet your ass I will be glad when a cop comes down the river, I think we all have our Boating licences now and I really dont think 410 HP and 12 Beer should ever be in the same equation, and I take comfort knowing that if I am out on the river and the Guy that thinks Heavy drinking and boating go hand in hand might think twice about being there and possibly stay on shore where he belongs, These guys are only doing there job and when anyone of us needs them we all know who to call, will it change much on the river. I dont think so, maybe for the better as it will weed out the bad apples that give us all bad names Idea


On the other hand sir: I have found in my about 5 years of jet boating that there are few things better in life than floating down the river on my jet boat on a hot sunny day and having a couple beers. I agree there is no place for any boat and 12 beers in the belly. However I am one of the responsible boat drivers who can enjoy a few beers and not go ripping up the river and killing innocent people. Therefore I will not be looking forward to the long arm of the law cruising my favorite rivers. Oh ya do not think they are going to offer you any help either. It just won't happen.

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show u one time



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 63
Location: whitehorse yukon

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boomhower wrote:
All I know is 1 is goin to whitecourt, 6 to the Yukon, 3 to NW Terr., 3 to Calgary, 2 to Edmonton. they will then be posted as needed. The upper Red Deer and Clearwater and Brazeau I dont think will ever get any patroling. So stick with the challenging technical rivers
6 to the yukon????? why so many here?? that pretty much means that all the communities will have one! i know that a boating licence is mandatory, so all the rules and regs. that you are supposed to know will be enforced,, remeber we all took the test and we all should know all the rules and regs. argggg! guess ill need to sharpin up on the regs.!! dammmm!
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