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MISSBHAVEN
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 310
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta
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 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| gatr wrote: | the justification for the prpopsed uim rule 900.5 Equipment
Safty,the GPS was being used as a navigational tool by the driver and the crew during the race, with big screens the driver has the tendency of looking at the GPS so the risk of crashing increases to the extent that they were not paying attention to the river course and/or natural hazards.One of the responsibilities of the crew is to navigate so he could be also using the GPS.
personally i know of an accident between 2 boats a couple years ago that the gps was a factor in one boat contacting another at speed on a section of river wide and deep enough for ten boats. |
If this rule has only been proposed and not adopted then we need to speak with our UIM reps which (correct me if I'm wrong) are Dale Whiteside and Brian McGregor (which is currently in the hospital) and make sure it is not adopted!
The justification of implimenting this rule for safety reasons is a very weak argument. As Hal and others have stated GPS's are used and save lives everyday in aviation, marine, in many new vehicles and also off road racing including SCORE and the Baja 500 & 1000. If an idiot were to blindly follow their GPS in their vehicle off a cliff (which I'm sure has happened), would the greater good be served by banning GPS's in all vehicles (I don't think so)?? GPS's greatly increase safety if used properly as a tool to "supplement" navigation, not to blindly use and rely on as a sole source for navigation. Also, you can't tell me it's going to be safer for your navigator to try to quickly and accurately read a small handheld 1X3 inch GPS under race conditions then a larger 5+ inch screen that can be safely read at a glance. It is my experience that at speed, the navigator is glancing at the GPS (10%) and navigating the river (90%) at least 10-30 seconds ahead of where the boat is currently at, the driver is responsible for the navigating the river (100%) covered within that first 10+ seconds ahead (unless I hit a rock and then it's Marks fault). 
As far as two boats colliding in a wide open river (which often happens on lakes and the ocean without the aid of GPS), then the driver(s) were obviously not paying attention, this could just as easily have happened while the navigator was checking the guages, should we then not allow any guages in the boat? Again, I don't think it's in the best interest of the sport to make navigating more difficult and ultimately less safe, especially with speeds getting faster and faster.
As I understand it, large GPS's were banned in NZ not for safety reasons, but because they felt that they took away from the essence of the sport where the teams that were better at "reading" rivers were at a disadvantage over the teams using the large GPS's for navigating their braided river systems.
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It's always the Navigators fault! |
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TOP DAWG
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 574
Location: Peace River Alberta anada
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boosted
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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x2
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Mark
Lets go back I think we missed one rock! |
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Forplay
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Location: Leduc, AB
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MISSBHAVEN wrote: | | If an idiot were to blindly follow their GPS in their vehicle off a cliff (which I'm sure has happened), would the greater good be served by banning GPS's in all vehicles (I don't think so)?? GPS's greatly increase safety if used properly as a tool to "supplement" navigation, not to blindly use and rely on as a sole source for navigation. |
Apparently some DO use it as the sole means of navigation, even over their windshields LOL ... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/gps-wrong-turn-prompts-rescue-from-car-rooftop/article1745101/
Good for a chuckle ... but it did happen in Ontario.  Never know, we could have a law soon banning GPS's or even Cars to protect her & others ...
Seriously though, if the proposed change was in part about the preserving the essence of the sport etc, then that's what the proposal should've read and the discussion been about. As presented, it's a very weak safety reason at best ... |
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TOP DAWG
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 574
Location: Peace River Alberta anada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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If they want to preserve the essence of the sport and create a Vintage Race Class then so be it, but dont ihibit progress, technology and safety. The boats now are much faster then they were 10 years ago and we must take every step possible to make them safer.
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whitehead
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Im in New Zealand now they dont allow any gps while you race and they are the hardest rivers to run in the world by far if you cant read the river at race speed you should slow down or you have no business racing |
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gatr
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 21
Location: gravel bar
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Point well made cb, keep it in the water big shooter
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JR
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| whitehead wrote: | | Im in New Zealand now they dont allow any gps while you race and they are the hardest rivers to run in the world by far if you cant read the river at race speed you should slow down or you have no business racing |
Very good point  ... It would be the same as a race car on a track
if you cant see the corner better get out of the seat and let someone else drive... Cheers JR
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boosted
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Actually not a good point. The reasons over here for allowing them are for safety not for navigating. There are crashes all the time and have nothing to do with GPS.
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Mark
Lets go back I think we missed one rock! |
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HIGH AND DRY
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 176
Location: St.Albert
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| boosted wrote: | | Actually not a good point. The reasons over here for allowing them are for safety not for navigating. There are crashes all the time and have nothing to do with GPS. |
Exactly, according to the new rule. Large GPS's are causing more crashes then they are preventing. Which personally I don't see how that's possible. I am not saying there has never been a accident because of a mounted GPS. But there are many times on a river where GPS's can give ahead ups on rocks, and other hazards. In our sport we should be trying to make it as safe as possible. Of corse this is racing and it still needs to be that. But I think taking away large GPS's is a step in a wrong direction.
Now about the GPS taking away from racing and reading the river. If the rule was because they want to make it where the racers have no help in running the river. I can maybe see that, but that is not the reasoning of the new rule.
I know this is a bit off topic but since were on the topic of safety. What do people think about having mandatory center roll bars? The racers I have talked to seem to think it may be something we should be looking at. But was wondering what others are thinking. |
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boosted
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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It is a great idea to have them.
You know they might create blind spots so someone might crash into something because they did not see it so maybe they should not be allowed. Just kidding of course but you can see how crazy it is to oultaw the large gps.
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Mark
Lets go back I think we missed one rock! |
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Will R
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 677
Location: NWT/Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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here here !!! I think they worded it wrong as a safety issue its more bringing it up as an unfair advantage and takes away from the essence of the sport being able to read water and remember routes this and that sorta thing. I believe it all stems from the last worlds in New zealand when some teams were flying the rivers charting the course then dialing them in running with pre run boat before racing it. kinda hard for the average joe to compete with even if he/she is a very capable racer but with limited funds.so i'm going to throw myself on the fire here but i think that banning them is a good idea to get teams away from relying on them as a navigational tool but as a safety tool i think they should stay as the safer we can make this sport the easier itll be to... get more racers and cheaper insurance to put on these races .anyways it goes i think both sides should agree to dis agree. it comes down to which is more important level playing field or increasing the safety level this being a decision that should be made by the racers wether they want to run one or not not a governing body! Just my 2 cents
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ALEX
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: red deer
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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The New Zealand ban is more political than safety driven;as mentioned before some of the teams pre run and plot the best and safest route;for financial or anti-technology reasons some groups have opposed the use of GPS units.
It was not that long ago that there was no pre running of a river allowed in New Zealand as it was felt that the teams without time/finance to prerun would be at a disadvantage.
There has already been discussion on banning the turbine boats ....whenever new technology becomes available there will opposition to it;Safety is often used as a justification. |
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GRS
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Have been watching topic with interest & agree that there are pro's / con's for both sides of this discussion. Still believe that tech companies out there are going to revolutionise how we can interact with our (and all other) sports - case in point the "realtime heads-up display" goggles that have just come onto the market, already with GPS, so how long before they come out linked to engine management & couse plotting
http://www.gizmag.com/zeal-recon-transcend-gps-head-mounted-display-goggles/16605/
There needs to be rules in every sport, just to keep the playing field level - but these are Very cool  |
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Itsworthit
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 432
Location: Whitecourt
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that this is a huge step backwards, I know from experience that GPS navagation works as an aid, it enables us to go faster safer, and we are all going faster now |
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