OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[Scottiet]

Hey guys first of all I would like to say that I love this forum there is a ton of good information. I've spend the last week just researching and reading posts here but still have a few more questions.

I live in the Slave Lake so I will be looking for a boat that I can take out on Slave but also run some rivers. I know there is no perfect boat for both, I plan on running the Athabasca, Peace and Slave which are all pretty deep. So I'll be looking for a boat to run 75% Lake and 25% river.
Would like to stay under the 30g mark if possible so I will be looking at used boats.
Looking for a 17-19'

So here comes the questions...
I've talked with several dealers about the difference between the sportjet (200), the 4.3L V6 and then the V8's. Some say the sport jets are the best fuel economy but you pay for the oil, others claim the 4.3L is the way to go as it puts out as much as the sportjet for the same fuel. I even had a dealer today tell me that the 4.3L and 5.7L 350 get about the same fuel economy???? which really made me question his background in boating. Is there any motor that I should stay away from, I'm not looking for a rocket ship and would like to get decent fuel economy therefore I'm leaning towards the sportjet or the 4.3L?

Deadrise....I've seen a few boats with a 14 degree haul is that to much to run in the rivers? I would think I need around a 10?

Teflon (UHMW) I understand that it helps save the boats from the rocks and make it easier to slide if you get stuck. For what I'm using it for I think it would be nice but from what I've found its worth about $4000 to get installed. Should I be worried about the boat when I pull it up on the rocks on the shorelines if theres no teflon? Who in Alberta does Teflon and what kind of cash am I looking at? If I go teflon how much should I put on?

The boat I am currently looking at is a
2004 Custom Weld Viper
4.3L V6 Kodiak efi (150hrs)
309 American Turbine
11 degree haul
Heater
NO telfon

What should I be looking at if I were to buy this boat, how is the 309 pump? Any problems with the older 4.3L kodiaks?

Sorry for all the questions guys but there isn't really alot of jet boaters around Slave to question about these things.

Thanks again

~Scottie

[JET1]

honestly you shouldnt see a huge fuel savings from the 4.3 to the 5.7 and parts for the 350 are much cheeper and easier to find. the sport jet is lighter significantly lighter than the 4.3 but that shouldnt be a concern if your not intending to run in little water. the rivers you mentioned alot of people have ran prop engines so no matter what boat you choose you should be fine. from the sounds of your intention the more degrees in the hull the better as the almost flat bottom boats dont take well to chop and slave lake can get prety choppy. you will be fine without teflon. i hope many more will comment for you ans im no expert i just bought my first river boat this year and i did alot of reasearch myself before i bougth but my boating intentions are the compleat opposite of yours i used to do the lake thing and got tired of going round and round so i switched to a jet with intentions of going places i shouldnt be going

[JET1]

fuel economy will be deturmined more by the boat than the motor the 4.3 mihgt be working 20 percent harder to go the same speed as the 5.7 therefore burning similar amounts of fuel the sport jet in comparason is sometimes better on fuel because it is so much lighter that the boat isnt as hard to keep on step. not that it is necessarly better on fuel than the 4.3 so in a small boat that is greatly affected in the way it sits in the water with 150lbs of weight in the back the sport jet might be better on fuel in a big boat that 150lbs doesnt affect the way it sits in the water the 4.3 might be way better on fuel than the sport jet

[Rock Skipper]

I'm new to jet boating too, I think the best all round boat is an Eagle E6 or E5 Sabre with at less a 350. A 10 year old E6 can still be a bit pricey, but I think it would be worth it. An E6 covers all your bases, it wouldn't look odd on the Lake and would make a good family ski boat and it would be right at home on the river. Definetly check an older one out.

[towman]

Rockskipper, I couldnt agree more! I had a 19' eagle with 12 degree delta hull and found it to be a great river boat as well as being quite at home on lakes such as williston etc. As for fuel economy, thereis really no way to get around the 6-8 gallon per hour mark and it is very dependant on how you are driving it. I had a small block V8 in the eagle and now have a firefish with a 200 and they are very comparable.... both burn lots of gas! Last I loiked my AT309 pump, may be a little more maintenance but very easy to work on yourself if your so inclined. my2cents, Happy Boating!!!

[towman]

Rockskipper, I couldnt agree more! I had a 19' eagle with 12 degree delta hull and found it to be a great river boat as well as being quite at home on lakes such as williston etc. As for fuel economy, thereis really no way to get around the 6-8 gallon per hour mark and it is very dependant on how you are driving it. I had a small block V8 in the eagle and now have a firefish with a 200 and they are very comparable.... both burn lots of gas! Last I loiked my AT309 pump, may be a little more maintenance but very easy to work on yourself if your so inclined. my2cents, Happy Boating!!!

[riverboater]

Don't be fooled by the v-6 weight loss, I just pulled the marine power 4.3 v-6 and installed a Kodiak 5.7 v-8. 4lbs difference. (lighter)
The v-6 has a lot of extra casting for the balance shaft pluse the shaft itself. I also get better fuel economy as I went from a 2 stage to a 3, from 18 , 19 impellors to a combo of 18 overlap front, 19 progressive second and 21 progressive third.
v-6, 3600 rpm to cruise 33 mph
v-8 3100 rpm to do the same. the v-8 has a sweat spot at 3350 rpm that pushes me along at 39.5 mph. I may burn more per hour but I get there faster, overall I go the same places on the same fuel. And when you get on it the little boat will now touch 60 mph. The v-6 had to work hard ot see 49 .5 on the gps.

[grizzslayer]

I totally agree with Rock Skipper. I bought an E6 that had been bought as a bare hull and custom built w/ a 240 SJ in it. I absolutely love the hull (delta pad version), as it corners like it is on rails, and the 12 deg hull performs okay in chop (I don't need to use my dental plan like in my buddies 8 deg), but the delta pad allows me to go skinny if I have too. I, like you use my boat 75-80% in big lakes and wakeboarding, so the E6 is a perfect fit.

On the downside, the 240 in my boat is a dog with full fuel (80G), 3+ people and gear for a weekend. I now have a Scott nozzle and highskew in it, and it is OKAY. When I repower, I'll be going with an LSA or LS3 and scott 8.5 pump. I would highly recommend that you go with a V8 and 2 or 3 stage pump. My boat would be a dream with this setup.

In terms of fuel; engine size doesn't dictate fuel consumption at cruise; RPMs do. I burn 10-13 G/Hr @ 30mph cruise (~4700-4800rpm). A big V8 will do the same in my boat, but give me that jam when I want it. In my option, a SJ in anything >18' and 2500lb is not a good fit.

As for teflon; it, in my mind, has no place in a boat that will be in lakes 75% of the time; too much slide and weight. Apply some Slipcote to the bottom and you'll be fine.

Grizz

[hannde]

I have 18' bobcat with only a 175 sportjet 12deg hull and spend 2 weeks a year on slave and do fine and have a good time on the Peace. We are just casual fishers though nothing to wild.

[Riverskeeter]

I live in Slave Lake and have a 21 ft North River 12 degree with a 350 EFI and Hamilton 212 Turbo. I to looked at the 2 stroke jets and in the end decided to go with the 350 EFI. I burn in around 7 g/hr at a cruise of 50 k/hr, on the lake it handles very well and have been out in some fairly high chop, so far I've been on the Peace, Smoky, Athabasca, North Sask, South Thompson and the Yukon Rivers and so far touch wood haven't needed the UHMW however I'm somewhat conservative in the skinny water. Send me a pim if you want to tag a long on the lake sometime.

[Scottiet]

Thanks for all the replys guys, I ended up picking up my new boat this weekend and took it out for the first ride tonight on the Slave River.

So I ended up buying a 2004 ThunderJet Envoy
-175 SportJet
-12 Degree Bottom
-0.2" bottom thickness
-8 hp honda kicker
-Bow mount MinnKota
-around 30 hours
-Owner had it from brand new and used it for freshwater fishing
-Not a scratch on the bottom
Looks like new.

So now I've got a few questions about upgrades I'd like to do to the boat.
-The boat doesn't have a Stomp grate, so I was looking into getting one, but is it worth the $500plus dollars? Looking for some retailers/manufactures
-I've read a few reviews about the oil pump failing in the 175, is there anything I should be watching to avoid this?
-What are some must haves before I go on a "River Trip"

Thanks again guys, love the site, its got a pile of awesome info

Scottie

[Scottiet]

Any one have an option on the Stomp Grate?

[shallow draft]

Lets see..... You plug your intake and drift back into fast water and with no power or steering you end up cleaning off your windshield on a sweeper and then smash into some rocks and cave in your .2 boat bottom breaking the unprotected cast area around your pump. you then take on more water than your bildge pump can handle..
Guess what happens next?

Life with out a stomp grate can be very scary/dangerous and expensive.

[Jigger]

I may be wrong, but I thought my insurance co. required me to have some kind of grate installed to protect the drivetrain from failure due to excess debris.

[sharky]

GET A STOMP GRATE!!!!! There is no other option, and while your check book is out put in a four blade hi - skew impellor.... ($800 - 1000). Will wake that boat right up.