OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[Bald Man]

Can somebody explain the rules to me. I know that there are many people wondering about this little bit of confusion but I'm willing to ask.
The "winner" caused an cancelled of a leg and didn't get a DNF???? The whole leg was cancelled???? Let's get this figured out. It sounds like BS to me. Karey was kicking it up and this other guy rolled his boat and this caused a cancelation of a leg. Just how does that work?? I bet there are plenty of folks that are waiting for a explaination of this deal.
Sound fishy to me.
Last year Doug T lost a world championship over a 5 gallon jug of fuel and this guy gets to roll his boat and gets to win a world champianship without finishing ALL legs.
I'm not trying to take nothing from the guy but I have heard that it was not a proud moment in the jetboating when he recieved his trophy.
Speak to me NZ boat guys.

[Bald Man]

The next race in NZ will be a NZ only boat race.
- I'll take this back; it's a very negitive and doesn't reflect any bodys opinion but mine. I know that it is very expensive to load up a boat and take the time to make the run to NZ. I just feel that the human judgement issues need to be looked at real hard. If something is written down and is known by all racers then there is no hard feelings towards the officials at times where a tough call needs to made.

[ntjetboater]

Great Post.
Doesn't make any sense to me , unless his boat after rolling was in the middle of the chute blocking the other boats. Regardless a DNF is a DNF!

[dart]

I was not sure on this ruling on sat morning before start of the 3 final legs, I would go up one more overall placing if he was dnf.
But as it turn out we did not sart that leg until 5.30pm and my start time was around 6pm and the weather was cloudy and hard to see that evening of the accident.
the sunken boat was on the racing line and remember the racing line was only 15ft to 20ft wide as we were racing in a small creek!!!.
they had to cancel that leg, instead of postponing and clearing the river to start again and then it would of been dark!!, so if they postpone he would of got a dnf!!
as the rules state if a leg is cancelled all boats get the chance to race the next leg, so they were racing to the rules just like the guys who change their motors with terminal engine failure!!
I know it is a hard one and some people are piss with the result but that is racing.
I am not a bias kiwi as i enjoy watching Spencer whipping our ass 4 years ago with amazing display of driving skills.

this guy who won deserve the crown, and remember he was in 21 place on day 3.
if some of the fast guys kept their boats in the water they would have been champ too

[SouthIdahoGary]

Thanks for the background and additional info dart. That helps me to get my mind inside and around the decision that was made and see its merits or fallacies.

One more inquiry and answer might help even more and that is-- Did anyone finish that leg and/or was he (Andrew Stuart) the first boat out??

Thanks in advance for anymore insight and/or facts from someone who was there. It's tough for me to make an informed judgement or even to have a defensible opinion when all I know is the results.

[SouthIdahoGary]

Thanks for the background and additional info dart. That helps me to get my mind inside and around the decision that was made and see its merits or fallacies.

One more inquiry and answer might help even more and that is-- Did anyone finish that leg and/or was he (Andrew Stuart) the first boat out??

Thanks in advance for anymore insight and/or facts from someone who was there. It's tough for me to make an informed judgement or even to have a defensible opinion when all I know is the results.

[moods]

Don't worry Baldman not all Kiwi's agree with the outcome. We rolled our boat on day 3 after engine failure at 90mph + and if we had been able to get it going for the next leg we would have received a DNF for the leg so what is the difference? I'm not up with the UIM rules but it doesn't seem quite right and lastly it would be a great loss to not see you guy's back here racing again after this doggy decision.

[Cavefish]

Here is what I take from what I have seen so far:
The title is contentious because of this abnormal event.
It sounds like the race officials were in a corner due to time constraints.
Most of us are not conversant with UIM world event rules.
Something like this seems to happen at world events lately.

Opinion: It's a damn shame. Andrew Stuart and ANYBODY that was that close to the top spot obviously did the prep, had the commitment and were driving their guts out. Stuart's team also did the courageous thing and whacked the boat back together overnight and came back fighting.
The other part I hate even more so is that we've seen this before.
Is it simply an unfamiliarity with UIM world racing rules that is causing the misunderstandings? I am not at all familiar with them.

We haven't heard enough about it yet. Specifically as Gary asks, did anyone complete the leg before the incident? Does that matter by the rules? What were the rules used in the decision?

We all need to know more about it, for future reference in our own events.
I would like to hear what Karey Crawford and others who DID race think. We've heard from two Kiwis who raced, much appreciated for contributing.

[Cavefish]

Geez, got me all worked up...

What I do know is:
a. I don't know what happened.
b. It may look fishy but it probably isn't.
and
c. When the officials added up Stuart's times at the close of racing on the last day and they realized he had the best time overall, they all said to themselves "Oh shit, oh shit!".

[dart]

On sat morning before the start at briefing, race officals ask if anybody wasn't happy with the results from last night, which were aviable from any of the hotels we were all staying in so people had 12 hours to look at the results!!
No drivers said anything about it, so all the drivers were I surpose happy with ruling.
At drivers briefing at the top of the shotover were their only 22 overall drivers and nav's and 15 DNF drivers who were still racing, all by ourselves, no crew no media etc and there asked us again if anybody had a problem with friday and again no one said anything, so to me and race officals it was all over
and the champ chased down Karey and won.
I am pretty sure only one boat started in front of andrew when his boat sunk.
it is sad that people are piss with the result but that is the rules and we all ,i mean drivers had a chance to say something at the right time!!
I am a person who is fair and would also race to the rule if I was in that situation.

[SouthIdahoGary]

Now along with the info already provided maybe this will help us. The following is the link to the 2005 UIM Circuit rule book. (Marathon River Racing is Group 900 on pages 244-268. It is in PDF format (Adobe Reader required). There are many references to other rules within the whole that are not specific to just Marathon River racing but general in nature to all competition.)

http://www.uimpowerboating.com/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4916-164701-181919-87279-0-file,00.pdf

Here are some parts of the rule set that I think apply to the decisions made.

Section 900.3.2 (page 245) states
.....the distance to be raced in each leg must be such that it can be covered between official sunrise and sunset of the region in question.

Section 308 (page 83) states
The Race Committee has the power to cancel any race should
unfavourable weather or other serious circumstances render such
action necessary.

Section 900.8.15 (page 253) states
Any issue not foreseen by these rules will be decided by the Race Committee, according to Rule 200.02.

Section 200.02 (page 48-49)
In all cases not foreseen by the International rules or seemingly inaccurately defined, the National Authority, a race committee, race jury or an appeal board, is to judge bearing in mind the intention of the disputed rule.

It would seem that considerable latitude is given to the Race Organizers and their officials that are actually on the scene to make changes as unique or unforseen needs may arise. With all the factual info passed on, so far, by dart it would seem that the decision reached is justifiable and defensible. Those who were on the scene and acting as its officials chose a course of action that they judged was best and most prudent.

It would seem to me, especially in light of the fact that no protest, formal OR informal, at any official part of the event was made to that decision, the cancellation of the suspect leg was made, accepted and acknowledged by all concerned. It then became part of the event and as dart has stated, "that's racing".

I had originally reasoned that if Andrew was the first boat out and balled it up and the course had to be closed, then no one else could have even had a chance to get a leg in before dark then, obviously, LEG CANCELLED. If Andrew was the second boat out and the first boat, and only that first boat, completed the leg AND the officials let the leg stand, (without anyone else being able to run it because the course was closed and darkness overcame them) then everyone else would have received a DNS or a DNF depending on how many boats had got the start flag before they had to close the course for the crash! With 3 legs to go only one possible boat could have then had a chance to overall. If that boat then had any kind of problem-NO OVERALL! If, If, IF boy this was a no win situation.

And who is to say what else may have happened on "the leg that was never run". We are assuming that nothing else would have happened to anyone else. We who run and are around these boats know how fickle the fates are in regard to everything going as we would like or expect.................So far I think I will have to throw in with dart and the officials on this one. I think they had the right of it. But it is a "Shit Sandwich" kind of decision.

[EDGE]

There was two boats that finished the leg 14, one left before Andrew then Andrew, then the thrid one out, both other boats getting to finish line. The second boat had been givin the thumbs up by andrew so carried on. Had the last patrol boat he passed waving his hands but no red flag out. so keep on going.
There was a protest placed and the decission of this is being appeal now.
Dont know how it will go. Race organizers should have throught about the all issues before calling the race of.

[SouthIdahoGary]

More info. More interesting. Seems as if I might have been a bit hasty in coming to a conclusion. And premature........always a failing when not enough info is at hand. If two boats finished and one was behind the crash then all could have / should have been allowed by? This is an ugly kettle of fish. No wonder it's so hard to get folks to serve as organizers and officials. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.....

[Fritz]

Hey I think your out of line Bald Man Comments like "it sounds fishy" and "the next event in NZ will be a NZ only boat affair" don't help a difficuilt situation and don't help our sport. Be assured there are plenty of people that are asking the same questions that you are, however you are sounding like a spoilt school kid who lost the game so has gone home crying and taken your baseball bat with you. there was a protest put in and heard and to date the results stand. Lets look at the results a little harder. Yes there are plenty of people in NZ as well who arn't happy with the winning boat, but what about Karey in 2nd place? the rules state that to change an engine there must be a long block failure. Karey's engine was changed between legs. It was good enough to get over the finish line there are a lot of people who are saying that the engine was good enough to start the next leg. Where do you start and stop??
To my way of thinking, and alot of other peoples as well, the person who completed the marathon with the best driving, in the fastest time, with the best prepared package capable of completing a marathon of 900 odd km was the 3rd place getter Bonner Anderson. If you haven't got the gear capable of completing the Marathon then take up Jetsprinting

We can all winge and bitch all we like but at the end of the day, like it or not the organisers had to do the best they could at the time, maybe next time they would do it differently, maybe they wouldn't? I think they worked within the rules and we need to accept the result and move on. I'm looking forward to the next race not worrying about the last one.

Let's go Racing...

[tuidog]

Fritz you are so right.. there is plenty more boating to do in the future..

there will always be an alternative point of view depending on who wins, in this case safety appears to have been paramount and justly so. rules are not always kind.

plenty will always travel to NZ for what is the jet boat mecca of the world and the ultimate test on driver,nav, equipment and preparation. No race is tougher to finish, hell these rivers are hard even in a pleasure boat! to say that no one will go is way over the top and does the sport or its author no favours.

I'm off to the ramp