OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[Paul]

Ok here is the deal. I have access to a bunch os SB chevy stuff. In fact I just got ahold of an older 4 bolt main 350 block and enough Holley carbs to last awhile.

What I need to know is what stuff should I buy to build a GOOD FX engine (heads, intake, etc.) Im new to all this stuff so any coaching would be great.

[Hitnrun]

Paul
I am not a boat builder or racer but I am sure that any of the race guys will be willing to help you with your issue.
________
GIFT CARDS

[Aluminum Squirt]

Jesse is a good source of knowledge, I'm sure theree are many other as well. I have some of the same questions, rebuild my motor or buy a ZZ4? I think I'm leaning towards the ZZ4 a little because I'll get a 4 bolt block, steel crank, roller valve train, and new HEI vs. what I have now. I haven't been inside the bottom end of my motor so I may have a 4 bolt. I'm just wondering approximate price difference between a rebuild with quality parts vs. going with a new ZZ4. I know a ZZ4 is around $4000, maybe a little less if you shop around. Anybody have any thoughts on this?-Aluminum Squirt

[MISSBHAVEN]

Here are the official AWJA Fx rules. http://www.jetboatracing.com/2004%20AWJA%20Rulebook.htm

Unfortunately, the rules have some grey areas. Unless you have a friend that is a very good mechanic, I think you're better off just buying a crate ZZ4.

[WILSON]

Am I a nice guy, or what?

Here are the ingredients of the original ZZ4 engine, as it comes from GM:

Complete Engine Part Number: 24502609

Engine Block: 10105123 Four Bolt Main, Cast Iron.
Cylinder Heads: 12556463 Aluminum, 58cc chambers.
Camshaft: 10185071 Hydraulic roller tappet.
Intake manifold: 10185063 Aluminum Dual Plane
Pistons: 10159436 High silicon aluminum piston with offset pins.
Piston Rings: 12528817
Crankshaft: 12556307 Forged Steel.
Connecting Rods: 10108688 PM rods.
Valve Springs: 12551483 LT4 chrome silicon.
Intake Valves: 10168465 1.94”.
Exhaust Valves: 10168514 1.50”.
Rocker Arm: 10089648 Ratio:1.5:1
Distributor: 01104067 HEI with centrifugal and vacuum advance.
Spark Plugs: FR5LS Gap .035, Rapid Fire #5 Gap .045.

Now: I don´t use that HEI distributor. I use the MSD 6AL module with a MSD Distributor and cables.

I use a Holley 750 mechanical advance carburetor, but you can use 650 CFM as well.

It is legal to use other types of manifold, as long as they don´t have a tunnel ram and/or are port matched.

[Paul]

Yes wilson, You are a very nice guy!

Here is what I want to do. I know its better to just go and buy a ZZ4 Crate motor. But I want to build my own to FX class specs since I have access to alot of the things I would need at a very low price or even the better price of *FREE* My step has been a mechanic since most of you older guys were making pudding in your diapers. He is also a pack rat and he he doent even know what he has laying around the shop. Plus he knows everyone thats into building engines and everyone that has machine shops. etc.etc. You get the picture. And this is going to be a low budget operation due to the fact I havent become rich and famous yet I figure with some of your guys tips and guidance and all my step dads tools , shop and contacts I can get into this sport without having to break the bank.

My plan is to get all my safety gear and propulsion stuff in order first, Then get a hull. I have people looking for one now. I already have someone who is just dumb/crazy enough to play navigator. Plus he is a little guy

Im out of here for a month, heading north for a working vacation (playing salmon guide), see you when I get back!!!!

[WILSON]

Also, please note that if you put a lot of different things other than the ones I mention above, your engine might not be considered standard enough for FX class.

Basically, you have to consider the following NO-NOs:

No fancy heads: Strictly the GM standard; no after-market – Dart, World Products, etc
No fancy block: Strictly Cast Iron 4" Bore
No big valves: Max size is 1.94" Intake; 1.50" Exhaust
No fancy springs: Max opening is 325
No fancy roller rockers: Strictly stamped cheapo steel rockers w/ 1.5 ratio.
No Big power crankshaft: stroke is 3.48"
No fancy Pistons or connecting rods. Compression ratio not to exceed 10.1
No fancy cam; If you use GM block, check model: 87 & later O.E. equipped hyd roller block #10185071 only; 86 & earlier, non-hyd. Roller blocks
No fancy gear drives or belt drives for the cam.
No fancy air gap style intake manifold allowed.

If you stick to these no fancy rules, your engine should be legal for race in the FX clas in the U.S.

[Aluminum Squirt]

My block is a regular hyd cam block, I'm guessing the ZZ4 roller cam won't work in it? Is there a ZZ4 spec cam that is a regular hyd grind from GM or is that a strictly custom or aftermarket part?-Aluminum Squirt

[MaxPower]

are the fast burn heads still illegal?

[SouthIdahoGary]

Fast Burn are NOT "legal". Number one problem-Intake valves are too big. Can only have 1.94 intake / 1.5 exhaust.

[SouthIdahoGary]

Fast Burn are NOT "legal". Number one problem-Intake valves are too big. Can only have 1.94 intake / 1.5 exhaust.

[slowpoke]

Paul,

Looking for a hull? I've got my eye on a new ride. Ran up the river in a head wind the other day and got 72 mph with a 225# co-pilot, 65#'s of other crap, and 40 gallons of fuel. I think the boat could be competitive if the bench seat was removed, the interior gutted and the seats moved back like Merv's.

[G-force]

slowpoke, how much hp are you running to get that speed?

bummed i missed you at albany last weekend i spaced out your number when i left. whats the new boat going to be?

[Cavefish]

Albany Paul and Mid-Cal Paul, about the best deal on heads is the kit from Scoggins-Dickee of an Edlebrock Performer intake and L-31 (Vortec) cast heads . You want the ones that have been machined for the extra lift of a ZZ4 cam, Z-28 springs and machining and also have screw in studs, I think it's now about 900 dollars for the kit. You should get the kit because the Vortecs use a different intake than other SBC heads, it's included of course as are the gaskets. The head gasket that comes with them you won't want to use unless you plan on running 89 octane gas.

They weigh 50 pounds more than a set of aluminum L-98 heads, the head the ZZ4 comes with. A set of ZZ4 heads, L-98, heads are about 1200 dollars a pair but will use any early-type manifold. The way I read the current rule set you can change the valves, and there is something there to be gained there, but I have never done this. The max open valve spring pressure is 325 pounds, but I think even that is way too much for 5250 rpm and the stamped rocker arms so just get a set of Z-28 springs or a set of LT-4 springs and forget it.

You can of course use another other PRODUCTION head (fuelies, etc) as long as you don't exceed the valve size limit (1.94 and 1.50) and the ports are untouched. No gasket matching, no minor porting, no nothing.
Fast burn heads are not legal because of the size of the valves like Gary said and also because they were never a production head (You could never buy a car or truck at the dealer with a motor with those heads on it.)

You'll need to make sure the final build is at or less than 10 to 1 compression or less. With the latest ZZ4 pistons, .025 deck and Vortec heads (64cc) use a .026 steel head gasket, gets you to 9.73 to 1, an .015 steel shim gets you to 10.03 to 1 which is illegal and the gasket that comes with the heads gets you about 9.2 to 1 which is giving away some HP. With L-98 heads (58cc) the stock .052 gasket gets you about 9.8 to 1. Please make sure to do the math and measurements yourself though.

And after I have said all the above, I have to tell you that I have proposed that at the fall meeting that we talk about an all-crate spec for both SBFX and BBFX like they used at Whitecourt this year in SBFX. Maybe we can settle on production block, crank and rods or something. The motor I ran this year and last uses the Vortec kit from Scoggins Dickee but I neglected to get the one with screw-in studs and had to have that done last winter as I had a problem with it lifting studs. Otherwise, the motor is a ZZ4 partial, ZZ4 cam (of course) and the Vortec kit and it's reliable, makes the right HP and is trouble free so far. Truly a lump that just sits back there and puts out 350 hp...

On the non-roller cam question, I suggest you call Dave Provost, he and Jerry Peckham had come up with a cam for non-roller blocks that would fit the bill. If you end up with a roller block, which is my reccomendation, you have to use the stock ZZ4 cam. It's about 185 dollars. Boy, I am spending your money for you like crazy ain't I?

Wilson covered the specs well, and there is also a link on my front page to the 2004 rules, the spec sheet for FX are in there and are the same as this years.
Does that help? We want to see you in a boat so ask away! You and your nav already have a built in 3 mph advantage....

[Cavefish]

The other way to end up with a set of Vortecs is to go junkyarding or check ebay. The heads came on several late 90's pickups and cars. mostly pickups. Search the web for info about casting numbers, etc. You'll need to have the tops of the guides machined for a stem seal that fits further down to allow more lift and have them pull the studs and tap them for screw in studs. Also you'll need to machine the valve spring pockets, OR you can buy a set of Crane (I think it's Crane?) valve springs that let you use the stock pockets. The above machining can also be done at home believe it or not, Comp Cams sells a a set of tools that lets you do both the guides and valve spring seats with a drill.

The L-98 aluminum heads came on Vettes, I forget which year, also 90's? Also lots of info on the web about casting numbers, the differences between L-98 heads and reverse flow heads, etc.

There are retro-fit hydraulic roller lifters available for the early SBC, they all use a link to connect paired lifters to keep them aligned with the cam lobe.