OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

sorry if i ruffled some feahers there just typing out loud is all,did talk to Russ and everyone jumped the flag in peace.also didnt know that the crate ls motors came with a front mount sbf distributer so for that i am sorry.and i do definatley agree with you on the cost thing Rob as you know or know now im a ford fan through and through but have 2 chev motors (was a money thing ) and i would be more than happy to run a gm in ls class as long as the cost justified it.i just observed that there seemed to be some troubles with the ls motors ignition not being able to hold full charge at wot for long periods of time making me a little uneasy about the ls.hence the reason i am pushing so hard for the ford 392 it came out of the crate slapped in the boat ,carb put on top ,headers on the sides, plug in ignition wires ,fire up and pinner.oh and $9500canadian 3 months ago more like $8500 now with the strong dollar

Coyotitto · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 54 Location: Red Deer River

the concept of cratre moter racing is simple, the long block assembly including cam shaft and valve train is produced by an OEM manufacture and available to everyone as far as exhaust, induction oil pans and ignition ....this is usually open to experimentation except what is specified by class rules...this year the ls class was an experimental calss as far as the front dist. the reason I did it was not for more power but rather for the mechanical fuel pump that comes with the kit ...if coil on plug ignition really has a problem a problem at WOT for long periods of time someone may want to allert GM it didn't seem to be a problem on Corvettes domination of the 24 hrs of Lemans to the point where all other competetors have withdrawl from their class ...ps...if it makes u feel anybetter...the dist and fuel pump..on the front drive LS3's are ford parts...cheers

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

i would too mark!whats the cost on an ls ready to run?as i just dug up robs dyno sheets with some very impressive numbers!

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

My rough guess is $10,000.00 c/w carb, starter, ign box, alt, bypass cooling, fuel pump.
The things that I had to buy that I didn't think about was a temp sensor, oil pressure sensor, metric to standard adapter for those.
The one thing that was difficult was the the drive system. I made my own crank adapter and it was impossible to find allen or ferry head capscrews in the 11m x 1.5 size but I made it work with the factory ones.

I am running the lightning exhaust as Rob did and going buy the rpm and impeller size it seems to jive with the dyno sheets that Rob got. I am only spinning mine 5400 right now and it is still running good after 10 hrs or so.

Oh I tried to run it without a oil cooler and no go. The oil will creep up to 240 runnning anything over 4000 rpm for long periods ans 260-270 if you are holding it down.

Coyotitto · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 54 Location: Red Deer River

Did some checking today ...the approx whole sale price of the 515hp ls is $8600 the 392 ford is $10400 the ford needs wires coil and msd box to complete ignition aprox price $500...the chevy needs msd ls controller aprox $350...I will be running an LS serries motor later next month at Louis I will test the coil and plug vs standard ignition and will post the results...I would love to see the ford on the same Dyno and if anybody has one maybe we could test both at the same time

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

Alumaman · Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 306 Location: Whitecourt

Hypothetical question;

if it was 2008 and no one had built an LS3 race set up yet, and the CT525 was available and tried....

Would the CT525 be a better crate option. What usable power advantage, versus the down side of costs, longevity, etc.

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

The ct 525 engine is the same engine as the 515 hp ls3. The only diff is that the ct 525 is sealed at the factory, it comes with an approved balancer, has a steel oil pan with a kickout in it. They are rated at 525 hp because it was tested with a bigger carb on it is all. It is possible that the oil pan of the ct 525 may help hp a very small amount as it may have better windage control but it would be very small if any. The ct525 is about $400-$500 more depending on were you get it. So in short both engines would be about perfect and I think that the class should allow iethr of the engines in the class.

Alumaman · Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 306 Location: Whitecourt

GMPP marketing Evil or Very Mad

Thanks Mark. For some reason I had thought that the CT was the only one that had the ASA cam.
So...if I have this correct, three variations of the LS3, with differences only in the cams and intakes.
LS376/430 HP
LS376/480 HP
LS376/515 HP

Then the CT525 come along with only cosmetic changes based on the LS376/515.

I would agree (at present) that the CT525 should be considered. Its essentially an LS3, but just given the CT designation for its association with what the roundy round guys are trying to do with their "crate classes"

Although, it does make it tougher to write rules like the FX class has,...such as "LS engines only" or "part #19171225"

RPM · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 189 Location: Nechako

What would be the negatives of having both the CT525 and the Ford 392 ran in the same class ? If it were to bring more boats out isn't that a good thing ? If some would prefer a Ford why not ? The Ford was originally allowed in FX but nobody ran one in Canada that I can remenber , even though it spec's looked good . This time I think the CT525 has the edge being lighter and a little more although @ a higher rpm . The 392 would probably turn a bigger impeller , would make things interesting . Just my .02 to the discussion .

rustyzipper · Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 67

Chevy High Performance magzine just did and article on the LS engine series and and like engines. I believe there were three different LS3. one detuned, one with a cylinder drop in the electronics and HO LS3. I will scan the article and post if it helps or you may be able to read it on the Chevy High Performance web site....

rustyzipper · Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 67

heres the link to that article. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/shortblock/0912chp_performance_chevy_ls_engine_comparison/index.html

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

i got a buddie that works at a dedicated ford performance shop in the south that can get us the 392 for $9200Can. told him about the new class and what its target is,also told him the ls was cheaper lol! now I got to phone him back on monday as he is going to see if he can he better that price.
Mark i'll ask Spencer about surrendering the 392 to the dyno

Guest · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:25 am Post subject:

Well I've been following this forum, I don't race but do own 2 jet boats and would like to race in an fx class some day. I checked out the manufactures spec's on the ford 392: 475hp @ 5600 rpm, 495 tq @ 4400 rpm, and the LS3 515hp @ 6500 rpm, 469 tq @ 5000 rpm. The chev is more hp but it's way up high in rpm band, ford has more tq and makes hp down low. These two motors would be very equal in a boat and I think should both be allowed to race the new ls class. If you want to pay a couple G's more to run the ford then who cares, hopefully both motors end up down at AMS dyno for a good comparison.

Cheers ! Wink