OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

just wanted to voice an opinion, not complaining just want some feed back. The way I understand fx(affordable entry level boating with everyone running the same engine) to be is that the engine is to be crate zz4 with no altercations at all. so my question is how do you get 390+hp out of one as one of the racers said that cost him 10,500 and another that claimed 385+hp. a crate zz4 is around 5000 is it not? well whats the extra 5500 spent on? I've herd others and myself mention before that crate engine class's should be sealed motors only and with not wanting to spend over 10,000 on an engine thats "supposed" to be the same as everyone elses in the class sounds like a good idea to me. just would like to hear some opinions before I decide if I order another sbfx-v hull or not.

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

I agree 100%.

The problem is that there are no "factory sealed" ZZ4 engines.

Buying a crate engine, and taking it apart, and tightening the tolerances and re-assembly with the same parts does comply with the rules, but you're right. Spending 10K to do that goes against the principle of "crate" and "affordable".

When dealing with these issues, and ideas on how to limit this, we always get to the question "How do we enforce this rule?" I still don't know how we could enforce a rule limiting the "tightening" or whatever other tricks there might be. Even worse, nobody likes to share the tricks.

I know the current rule is somehow "easy" to enforce.

In my opinion, and the guys who go to the UIM or other rulebook meetings will confirm, is that we can play with other racing rules to level the field. For example, I believe that bigger penalties for DNS and DNF do help to build an advantage to "reliable"(not so expensive) over "fast" (more expensive).

Probably too long for an opinion, but that's mine.

SouthIdahoGary · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Wilder, ID, USA

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

yes there is a factory sealed zz4! its the ct355 part number 88958603 and I think its only $900 more than the zz4.check it out! Thanks Gary that can explain some things. all the more reason to go factory sealed.

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

Well, Gary, as usual, you're the source of real wisdom. Thanks for the information!!! This is VERY enlightening.

That factory sealed ZZ4 version is rather new. Isn't it?? Three years ago I was looking for one, but the sealed crate engines that GM had on sale were different and with less performance.

JET1 · Joined: 03 Jun 2010 Posts: 42

easy solution is everyone shows up with there motor on the bed of the truck and you have a chinese gift exchange before day one and anyone that needs to swap motors gets a 5min penelty everyone should be showing up with a relitively fresh ZZ4 so there shouldnt be much fuss over who gets which motor

Brandon · Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 11

Ever think of trying a engine claim rule. racers dont cheat as much because they dont wont to lose there engine. check out imca.com and go to modifieds and look at the engine rules. this works pretty good where we race.

SouthIdahoGary · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Wilder, ID, USA

Sealed? LMAO! Sealed how???? And by WHOM? Where there is a will there is a way. the will to win at any cost is pretty seductive and not that expensive.....replacement sealing bolts anyone?? Wink

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0803_crate_engine_racing_discussion/index.html

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

In the last race, the FX engines were checked.

Displacement was checked on the the top places. Probably something else too, but I wouldn't come close to the inspection.

Halfway down the race, all FX boats were checked. They verified the size of the carburetor, and with the help of an endoscope, at least they checked the ports to see if they had no apparent work, or if the pistons looked like stock.

I believe this is the correct approach. Maybe testing for compression would help to eliminate a bit more suspicion. And Gary is right: If the engines are not checked, the class will die.

The UIM rule allows for any gasoline, so there's no point on checking it. I have always insisted at the rule meetings to limit to fuel pump only, and am always told that "FX engines don't last with pump fuel". Funny, as I have used three ZZ4 engines in my racing career fed only with pump fuel, and have never blown one. But my engines have none of the above...

Anyway, I'll probably keep myself from posting more opinion in this matter, as I certainly don't want to look like "the sore loser", which I am not. I enjoyed racing in Canada and I look forward to race again in international events, even if I am the slowest boat in the class with a genuine crate engine....and pump fuel....

SouthIdahoGary · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Wilder, ID, USA

blowin crazy · Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 42 Location: LOG JAM

fuel from the pump and restrictor plates ?

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

I have been reading this post and there are a few things I should mention. You cannot biuld a competitive B motor for 10,500.00. Some of them were getting close to 40,000.00. Restrictor plates sound good but they also do not limit the amount of money that could be spent. Pump gas is another problem. Who's pump? I have seen and have had engines blow up that got one bad tank of pump gas.

The only way to do it is by using a couple of biulders that are picked to do the engines to a certain speck and be dynoed within a certain level for a preset price. If there are complaints against the engine it gets taken back and dynoed to verify the hp. No not the cheapest way. Better for the engine biulders than a crate class. Stops 99 percent of cheating. My guess is around 20-25k per engine. If you ask me thats to much for fx class.

Factory sealed engines are the cheapest. Yes if someone really wants to cheat then they will find a way. I think some of the tech guys are pretty smart though and they might get caught. For a major infraction there should be a large fine like 25,000. I m not talking that the carb spacer is .125 to thick but if the engine has been modified and they get caught.

That way it is still cheap for the guys who are honest and it gets rid of the "prepared engines"

Hines · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 304 Location: Red Deer

Boosted i have to agree with you,LOL,i understood this to be an inexpensive & competive class to race in when it was setup,let driver,nav and boat setup take over,crate is the answer,the twicken penalty is also in line that will keep the hp close i would think.Later.

boosted · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 378

The one problem that would still exist is repairing a sealed engine. Yes you can take to a biulder who will for a price blueprint the engine and as far as the specs are concerned it will be within the limits. As with anything if you line up all the specs in a the right direction there can be a reasonable power gain at the end. That is the tough one and making rebiult engines in that class get resealed after a dyno test by an approved shop may send the cost up but it is an option. The responsability ends up on the approved shop to make sure that they don't supply or let a motor out of spec through.

Wet Dream · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Whitecourt

Here is my opinion. Boat racing and affordable are two words that do not go together. Sure a ZZ4 crate engine is around $5000 depending who you buy it from, but you cant just buy it open the crate and put it in your boat and expect it to start. You need some parts to make it run and they add up. Depending on how fancy you want to get the more its gonna cost. Here is an example

Carb 750
spacer 150
valve covers 300
headers 1000
evac 75
ignition 600 way more if you go with a complete msd ignition
sparkplug wires 100
oil pan 600
water pump 250
pulleys 150
altenator 250
alt bracket 100
starter 250
Kodiak thermostat housing 200

Then if you want to get it dynoed your probably looking at another 1000
Everything adds up.