OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

TOP DAWG · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject:

XERO's right, we would love to see you up here along with anyone else from south of the border. I know it's going to be a great event for everyone involved.

Bald Man · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject:

This has took a severe right hook. When FX was started, it was as plain to understand as anything could be. Buy a crate ZZ4 and put it in anything you could and drive the hell out of it. It was the people that wanted to build their own ZZ4s that made things confused. Building a "crate" motor make NO sense to me. But it does create a illusion of a motor being built with an possible advantage. A stock ZZ4 is so economical to buy it makes one wonder why anyone would want to build one. Years back, the C class was the "entry level" class and the motors went to the extreme, thus making it more expensive. Start modifing and building ZZ4 engines WILL lead to the same thing that happened in C class and will prevent the entry level guys from racing.

TOP DAWG · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

That's right Baldy, so economical that you better be behind the wheel of a race boat come summertime.

Yellowhammer · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 46

It is painfully obvious to me that my thoughts are unique on this subject. That is okay. Perhaps our differences come from the fact that in the US we do not have a "C" class anymore. We have sport jets, fxsb, fxbb, B, and A class. I understand in Canada you have a sbfx (crate engine only) class and a "C" class correct? We kind of morphed the two together. The American Whitewater Jetboat Association (AWJA) made this decision long before I ever started racing jets. I am just following the rules that they layed out. Now because of my capital investments into these rules I do not want to see the rules changed in the US. It would not be fair to me or anyone else in sbfx that has purchased motors under our current rule set. Where it becomes a problem is when boats from different countries try to compete against one another. I can see this dillema. If I were to race the "C" class I would not race a step tech. I would have a tunnel. I am sure I could build a 450-500hp engine under the "C" class guidelines with the $5k claimer. Since I already have money invested in my two engines for the US rules I did not want to go buy another zz4 to fit into Canada's rules. That is why I am staying home. In my opinion I am not set up for the C class and I dont fit Canada's sbfx rules. Hope this helps clarify where I am coming from. I know we spent many hours on this subject earlier in the year. Cheers.....

TOP DAWG · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:

Well, I hope the UIM sanctions the FX class for competition and then there will be one set of rules for all 4 countries. This will make for better competition and more boats / race. Good luck with your races this year.

ravencrew · Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Brookings Or.

Hey Merv, I think you do a hell of a job with what you got! The family and I love to see you race. I think the problem is that last year a team was caught cheating, It started what we now have. People are now wondering if the team won due to awesome driving or if his motor was rigged. I personally didn't have any doubt in the world, That the little yellow boat wouldn't pass with flying colors!!! Very Happy

It is sad

that this had to happen to our sport. I guess sooner or later it would happen though. Now when ever someone wins a race people will probably start questioning what was in the setup of the motor! They will forget that they could have been just out driven. Everybody who does race should always reflect back at why they started racing. Be it the thrill of the race, The friends we all met and get to know, Or just getting in the boat and leaving the rest of the world behind for a couple of laps! You will be sorely missed at Riggins this year, But you can bet we will be their at Hoopa!! That town rates next to Riggins and Grant's Pass in our book!!! Very Happy

Paul · Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 26 Location: Albany OR

If and when I get off my butt and get a boat (that may be real soon) Im going to race SBFX. I know I will be struggling money wise to make it to most of the races. If I smoke the engine I know for a fact I cant go buy a new crate engine to replace it. I will be able to repair the engine I have though(whole auto shop at my disposal). I also access to a ton of 350 parts and pieces that I could use to scab together another engine that would pass under our current rules. Lets keep them the way they are. They seem to working fine.

RPM · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 189 Location: Nechako

I hear yuh Paul I am putting a boat together and I won't be buying a ZZ4 with the all the 350 stuff I already have , but I will be seriously below what is now needed to be competive in C class . I wish there was still the claimer rule , a C engine now seems to be a B class engine with a wet sump and a 750 Mr. Green

Bald Man · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:

Sorry Felix, Whitey sold the boat that I was hoping to drive. Dang.
RPM, My point exactly, bulding a C motor has become way to expensive and high tech for most guys to slap together a competitive engine out of what you have hanging around in the parts bin. Be the time you get machining and the cost of new parts that will actually hold together for a Marathon race, you'd be spending more money than a ZZ4 wouyld cost. And a ZZ4 will finish the race.

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

guess we should call it the GMZZ4SBFX class or the ZZ4 class

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

As this is getting philosophical, here's my philosophical latest thoughts:

1.- Merv says:[quote]Lets not pump fiction into a bunch of guys' heads that boat racing is for everyone. It is not. They will just be more miserable later if we try and portray this sport or any one class as an "entry level cheap class"

Merv's right on this one. This is not a minimum wage sport.

However, there is a BIG difference between trying to be competitive on "A" or "B", class, where you need a wallet at least $60,000 deep, and being competitive in FX class, where you can be competitive with about $30,000.

I have never seen a "complete stranger" showing up racing. Everybody that I know that got into the sport did because he was a close friend or relative to another guy already racing, or lives in the area where races are held.

Anyway, everybody who is racing had his FIRST race boat at some time.

Yes, some people started on bigger classes, but it is more likely that your cousin who is not racing but has been hearing all your race stories (Because you regularly don't talk much about other topics) might reach out for his wallet and get a sport jet or FX boat than going for the big bucks and get an A or B boat.

If I'm racing an FX boat, it's not because I'm "new" to the sport (have been racing powerboats since 1989) or because it's "cheap" (It's NOT). It's simply because, while I can afford to race AND be competitive in FX, I just can't afford to be competitive on A or B class. (-Don't- Have- The -Money) And that's the same case with most guys racing FX.

2.- What all the multiple threads of FX class ruling are about is precisely that there is NO international FX class rule. There is a AWJA FX class rule which seems to "work fine". Fine. It's up to AWJA members to decide what ruling works best for their races, and it's up to the Canadian racers and race authorities to decide what ruling works best for their races. I've mentioned this before: Conditions are different in every country and it will be very difficult to come up with something that will please everybody.

3.- But, as Gary mentioned before, If there is ever going to be a UIM Fx class, chances are that a straight out of the crate ZZ4 ruling will be better.

Think of it as a class for that engine only.

A "built" ZZ4 engine is obviously NOT a "real" ZZ4 engine. If that were the case, there would be no fuzz about admitting only crate ZZ4 engines in the worlds in Canada.

Rapidchaser · Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 198 Location: Edmonton

Hi people;
I would like to voice an opinion here. Keep in mind that I am not a racer
of jet boats, but I am a fan and there is lots of us!
Hell I don't have the guts to do what you guys are doing and can't afford it
either. Hell I can't even afford the boat I got anymore Sad

but I'll keep her going till one of us dies Wink

This "is" The worlds is it not? How much time and effort went in to a compromise that would please every one? After all I believe there are boats coming from Four "Different" countries.

I agree that it is not every one who will want, or be able to afford to race
In any of these classes. If your going to hold a world class race then someone needs to get their shiet together and make sure it's fair for everyone well in advance of the race.

Like I said I'm only a fan, but there is a lot of whining about promoting the sport and not a hell of a lot being done about it. and I'm talking "here in Canada"

Rant over, feel free to delete!

Itsworthit · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 432 Location: Whitecourt

Hey Merv,
I don't think I agree with your philosophy, I do think that there are people wandering around the pits saying, one day I need to do this, it may not be that day but if we have something straight forward such as Crate Engine, and rules as simple as possible, so that some of the average Joe's can try to compete, one day they will do it, I can attest to that because I was one of those guys, in 1993 I watched my first boat race here in Whitecourt, it took me 9 years to get into it but here I am.
I understand that there is no C class in the USA, so, I suggest to you, come up here and run C class, you may be more competitive than you think, my point is, Bad Habit ran in the worlds in Mexico in B class and won the Championship, he ran C class here, (well he used to), now he is defending his title in B this year, but his boat in mexico was a C boat, to finish first, first you must finish.
My 2 cents worth

Xerophobic · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:

Also worthy of note; with the cost of a ZZ4 in the US one could likely buy one, come here and race it and sell the engine after wards for a minimal price. I doubt you would lose much at all once the exchange etc was figured out.
Especially simple if you're already running a 350 in your boat the "add on" stuff is already there.

Cheers

Yellowhammer · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 46

Okay....I feel like I stepped into a hornets nest with this issue. All I am trying to say is that the rules for FX in the United States work for us. It bothers me to see folks who are not even in our class (fellow AWJA) racers talk about possibly changing our rules. There is simply no need to. I am not trying to convince anyone else (Canada included) that they should change their FX rules. It is what it is.

Sorry if I offended anyone who considers themself an "Average Joe". My definition and someone else's I am sure are light years apart. The "Average Joes" I refer to are the ones who come to my shop and don't have enough money for their own beer let alone boat parts! I still love these guys to pieces but I am not going to convince them that they can afford to race boats just because it is an entry level sbfx class. I still don't consider sbfx an entry class but hey that is just me. In my world I wish I could buy all my friends their own boat and have everyone feel included. But that is not reality.

I think we beat this issue to death and I am sure there will be more talk in the future about it. I am not sure what the answer will be but I can assure you that I will lobby for the current AWJA fxsb rules to apply for the 2008 Worlds in the US.