OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

Just might be a simple and cheaper solution to even out the ford,dodge and Chev dilemma in this class.Figure I'd post it to see what you think about it. www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4398_gm_350_ci_zz4_crate_engine_build/ It is test2 i am talkin about in the article, new cam,carb,intake & ignition to make 380hp @5400

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

So, basically you buy a stock ZZ4 engine with 350 HP, simply tear it down, and:

1) Replace the Cam, lifters, Valve springs and Rocker arms
2) Replace the Intake manifold
3) Replace the pistons and rings

All this, with (quote) "all with a few simple bolt-ons and new pistons and rings."

And you get more than 520 HP.

This is called BLUEPRINTING, and is, precisely, what the FX class concept is NOT about.

In my personal and humble opinion, I believe the straight out of the box concept is better.

Anyway, this seems to be an excellent "recipe" for the Canadian "C" Claimer class. If those 527 HP are real, this could even be a great deal for a "B" class engine...

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

sorry about that Wilson I should have been more specific.i meant the first mod they made to it in the article test 2 where it made 380hp @ 5400 that would bring ford dodge and Chev all into the 380hp range

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

The first modification calls for a new Intake manifold, cam, lifters, pushrods and roller rockers. Roller rockers won't fit in the stock valve covers and will require that changed as well.

The ZZ4 engine is sold for $3900 U.S. How much would all that modifications be???

The "Fastburn" engine has 380 HP (similar to the resulting engine with the first modification) and goes for $4520 U.S. (And you don't have to work)

It's probably cheaper to go for the "Fastburn" engine than going to the ZZ4 and modifying it.

Anyway, It's a valid suggestion

SouthIdahoGary · Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Wilder, ID, USA

The following are only MY thoughts and observations.

The only way to get the class (FXSB) UIM/Internationally recognized would be to become MORE restrictive. ZZ4 out of the box only. POSSIBLE .030 overbore rebuild/refresh allowed, but only with GM ZZ4 parts. MAYBE just run it out of the crate and if it breaks get another crate motor, rebuild the original to sell to a car guy. "We" just don't have the resources, time or patience to police a class that extensively. With the restrictive nature AND without policing, it is only going to devolve into a finger pointing, bad feeling generating mess. One of the reasons Jet River Racing has "worked" across 4 different cultures/countries is because of the lack of specifics in motors. It has been kept VERY simple. Simple works best. The sport is somewhat self limiting in what can be successfully done to motors and let them live, but it lets folks try. (Also somewhat limiting because of the venues!) The ZZ4 has proven itself capable of surviving, EVEN IN OUT OF THE BOX FORM. Consistent 80+ mph top speeds attainable with only a $4k USD motor! It is incredible. The roar of a V8 with a huge plume of spray following a boat that is covering 115 feet every second with a motor a guy can get at his local GM dealership. THAT is an attraction to the guy standing on the bank watching or wandering the pits. The "pit wanderers" recognize almost instantly that an "A" or "B" motor is way beyond them and their capabilites and pocketbook. But they also recognize a relatively stock appearing motor as just MAYBE a possibility and will inquire and perk up when it is explained to them what it actually is.

The restrictive nature of some of the proceeding is also completely against most everything that is in me! But that is one of the reasons I run in "B" Class Very Happy

I personally want to allow folks to experiment and push and strive and find all they can BUT.........as a rulemaker, semi-official and a "directing guardian" (if you will) I understand and have seen that the car venues that have affordability and carefully controlled motors are thriving and attracting new blood. For OUR sport to survive and grow we have to have a realitively affordable way "in". One that holds hope, but also is somewhat limiting so as to create the illusion of parity and reinforces that parity once they are in.

After researching the crate motor concept pretty extensively all winter, most of the other venues (read that as "car") have gone to the single motor Chevy ZZ4. Dodge and Ford have kind of abandoned the concept and gone for the Street Hot Rod HP market but at the expense of affordability. You can buy 2+) ZZ4's for what one Ford costs! And the Dodge motors change parts almost monthly!!!

In the US folks are starting to put the kind of dollars into "built" FX motors that would allow them to be standing on the podium in "B" class about half the time! Better pay outs too! Try this on for size.....at the just concluded Roseburg Race the time on course for the FIFTH place SBFX boat TIED the second place finishing "B" Boat (and the THIRD place SBFX boat had a CRATE ZZ4 in it)!!!!! The 4th place SBFX boat, who got nothing, BTW, could have taken the second place money in "B" Class-- $1350 USD!!! If you wish to crank it up and massage and tweek a motor maybe you should go move "B" Class. The financial rewards might be greater Cool

To get 3-4 nations on the same page WE are going to have to make it SIMPLE. And I think that means a ONE motor platform class.

WILSON · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 352 Location: Mexico City

I agree with Gary: Straight out of the box is simple and affordable for this kind of class. There are other good classes to race on if you want to test your engine building and blueprinting skills.

Will R · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 677 Location: NWT/Alberta

that's not what i was implying.Just so you know i run a ZZ4 in the storm boat.The reason i posted this is if a guy does want to run a ford they have to spend allot more$ to be legal fx since the gt360 is no longer available.maybe the fast burn 385 is a good idea.
ford 385
dodge 380
Chev385
all available in crate form hmmmm seems pretty even!!!
i don't mean to stir the pot its just that I'm sure there is some ford and dodge people out there that would like that option.just an idea.

BLOWN INCOME · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:15 am Post subject:

Hey willy when you heading to the peace country

Arthur · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:42 am Post subject:

Hey Vinny....Why does your AVATAR look to be doing 60mph with no driver?You a stuntman too?

Yellowhammer · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 46

I have read this thread with great interest. A couple of things I feel must be responded to. I keep hearing that the fxsb class is an "entry level class" that is supposed to attract the "pit wanderer". First of all, I do not believe any class is a "entry level class" including the fxsb. I certainly don't treat it as such. No one should get into boat racing if they don't know how to drive a boat or have the resources to lose. Let me state that again.....resources to lose! You will never make money boat racing and it is not cheap to get into racing no matter what class you plan to enter. I am tired of people trying to make boat racing attractive to the average "Joe". Lets not pump fiction into a bunch of guys' heads that boat racing is for everyone. It is not. They will just be more miserable later if we try and portray this sport or any one class as an "entry level cheap class". This of course is relative on how competitive you want to be. There is a simple metaphor in life...."you get what you pay for". If a guy is riding a financial tightrope that is so thin that he can not afford to maintain or repair a damaged engine...then he should not race. He will not have fun nor will his family. It is tough way to look at the world, but hey things are pretty tough in Hoopa!

I for one have been involved with boat racing since the day I was born. I was in my uncle's and cousins' pit crews (8 total who raced boats) since the age of 3. I first drove a race boat at the age of 12 and starting racing at the age of 20. I have seen the highs and lows of racing (including the death of loved ones). Although I am a relative newbee (entering 5th year) to jets I have had my share of wins and losses over the years. My point......I CHOOSE to race boats and more importantly I choose to be in the fxsb class. It has nothing to do with finances, speeds, or ability why I choose this class over the others. I simply like this class and choose to be in it. I by no means am a "pit wanderer" and I also don't expect a "pit wanderer" to be competitive right out of the box.

To be candid, my little yellow boat has been on a pretty good winning streak. There is something to be said for consistency, smart driving, good parts, and the will to win. I have finished every leg of every race for the last 11 races. To win it takes skill, patience, lots of prep time, luck and resources. I don't expect to do well without being fully prepared (hours in the shop meticulously going over the engine and doing routine maintenence). One also needs lots of seat time. Yes practice does help. But boat racing success also comes at an extreme social cost. I feel as though no one is happy to see me win a race anymore. I am no longer the underdog, but the guy who people want to see beat! I have never been a cocky guy, nor do I ever try to flaunt what I have. I come from a town where there is not a lot of resources or money so I know full well the consequences of having something that someone else wants. This however is not what is bothering me.

What bothers me is that when I entered the jet boat circuit there was an established rule set for the fxsb class. I did not write them....they were already in stone. Now I am hearing rhetoric that the rules need to be changed. Why? The only reason I can think of is because people think I have an advantage. My boat has never been known to be the fastest boat on the river. Jesse has shown me his GPS where he has hit 90mph with his wing boat. I have never seen anything close to that. Mike Egbers clearly had the fastest boat in the sbfx class in Roseburg and if he did not jump the start on the last leg he would have won! Did I mention earlier that you can not have any driving errors to win a race? Especially in the competitive US fxsb class. Not to mention he was driving an older, heavier kwik kraft tunnel boat. This is exactly why I believe the sbfx rules as written in the US works! The lightest, most expensive boat is not always the fastest. But the fastest does not guarantee a win! Yes I will admit I have the best parts and boat money can buy.....but that by itself is not why I am winning. There is a lot more to it than that. For those that are curious my boat and engine fit our rules to a "T" and even have survived a protest as spelled out in the AWJA rule book. At Roseburg my engine was torn down all the way to the pistons right on the river bar. I recieved $200 US dollars for the tear down and now I will spend three times that for my engine builder to put it back together. I thought surviving a tear down was supposed to clear the air. I guess not. Now they say the rules need to be changed.

Perhaps people will feel better knowing that I only plan on racing one more race this season. Team Yellowhammer will be ready to defend our crown at home.......

TOP DAWG · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject:

So are you racing the Worlds this year or what ? Put your money where your mouths is and come show us Cannucks how to race. Shocked

Yellowhammer · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 46

Dawg,

I originally planned on traveling up to Canada this year but they tell me the FXSB rules up there don't jive with ours in the US. I have two engines that meet our rules but not yours.

Come to Hoopa this year with a sbfx....let's see what you got....

TOP DAWG · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject:

Our rules are simple, Stock ZZ4 as it came from GM, that way there's no argument and it's easy to police. June 09 is too close to the Worlds for me, I help organize the event and I have to be around. Plus my boat will be setup for B class. I had planned on going to Riggins next week but work got in the way. It's possible will make a race in the US this year but it will be in BBFX.

Xerophobic · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject:

I know Gary Weaver suggested this a long time ago and the uncertainty of our plans made it hard to take action.
Is anyone else interested in taking part in a candid, discussion group at Riggins which everyone involved can voice their opinions and concerns about future of the sport and classes etc?

It may be a good chance to get the talks going across the border to make cross country racing a bit easier.

Its a shame Merv won't be coming up to race I know we'd love to see him

Cheers

Stoker · Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 55 Location: Grande Prairie

I am with the crate engine idea? Stock no BS involved for SBFX. If you want to do more to your motor then you goto C class this is why we have it.

SBFX is a good stepping stone to the other class's, It is cheaper even if you go all out on everything witch we did. It is good tight racing, it comes down to hull set up and driving ect..

My two cents.